NF F1 Atacr 4-16x50 VS S&B PM2/LP 4-16x50

guncrazy5606

guncrazy5606

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So I plan on Ordering one or the other here in the next few days as I cant find either in stock anywhere or on the EE.
Price is quite close so not an issue and I'm waiting 4 months for either.
Will be ordering.
Atacr F1 MRAD/mil-R or
S&B PM/lp MRAD/P3l

Just wanted some input from any S&B pm owners. I already own a few NF products including an Atacr and love them. But am considering a Schmidt & Bender pm2 but from what I read they don't have the same amount of elevation or windage adjustments as the Atacr. Now is this just clever marketing on NF's behalf or is it true? Any knowledgeable input would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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The 4-16x50 ATACR isn't a F1 only the 42mm is, and the 5-25x56 ATACR comes in F1, the 4-16x50 ATACR also hasn't been released yet.

I have the 5-25x56 F1 ATACR and love it, I've been watching for the release of the 4-16x50 so I can pick one up for my .223, wish it was going to be a F1 but will be fine as can range and do hold overs on 16x which it will be at for that stuff anyway in my case.
 
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Well if the 4-16x50 Atacr isn't going to come in F1 then it's between the 4-16x42 F1 and the S&B 4-16x50. And now I'm leaning towards the SB but does it really have less internal adjustments then the NF?. For all the hype on S&B I would have thought it to be equal or more. Also considering the S&B 3-20x50 PM2 but the price is crazy.
 
Another one I'd look at is the Vortex Razor HD 2, 3-18x50, I have looked at it several times tempted to get it instead of waiting on the new ATACR, it is FFP.
 
FWIW;

Schmidt and Bender don't make a double turn turret in mil for the 4-16 PMII. Single turn only limited to 13mil of adustment range. There is a DT turn turret but in moa only. Shame.
The erector assembly has more adustment range than 13 mil but ony 13 mil is accessible on the turret. This shouldn't really be a detractor as you will be able to set "0" and still always have 13 mil up (Iirc I think I had my 4-16 on a 0moa base and still got 13 mil up). This should be plenty to get most .308's out to 1000m. I think people put too much value into having a huge range of adjustment. The same people likely dont have a place they can shoot to 1000m anyway.
The 4-16 is an older design and is very limited in reticle selection. Mind you NF's Mil reticle selection is limited as well and the Mil-R reticle sucks. If you have the choice I think that the P4 Fine is a better reticle than the P3.
I had a good chat with Jerry Ricker of S&B USA one year at Shot. I expressed to him how much I liked my 4-16 PMII. Even when directly compared to a 5-25 PMII that scope was just stunning to look through. He nodded knowingly and said that the 4-16 PMII was one of his all time favorite models. I sold mine to buy a 3-20 PMII Ultra-Short. The 4-16's quality of image was noticibly nicer than the new scope.

I dont have any practical experience with the Nightforce 4-16 ATACR. I have handled it and looked through it and it seemed very nice. Nightforce has really improved the quality of their glass since the introduction of the Beast and ATACR series. The turrets were very positive as well with nicely spaced "clicks". This is an area where the new S&B turrets could use some improvement. The new 16 mil low profile turrets on the S&B's aren't great in my opinion. The MTC detents are hard to dial past without skipping a 1/10 mil and the spacing between clicks is very tight. Not a big deal for belly shooting on a weekend but an issue when trying to dial accurately under stress (ie PRS matches). I like NF's low profile turret better than S&B's. the only thing I would get rid of is the locking feature. Mind you this is only in play when dialing off "0".

Both are nice scopes and you wont go wrong with either. I'm not sure I'd spend todays money on the 4-16 PMII. Its a dated design that is overpriced in our curent economy. Then again what isnt right now. A used one at a fair price I'd be all over. Not sure where the ATACR's are currently positioned for price.
 
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That's what I thought about the double turn turret from the S&B website but when speaking to wolverine today about ordering one they said it is an available option on the 4-16x50 MRAD. The biggest thing I hear is how amazing the glass is on the S&B!? So having looked through a new Atacr and S&B is their that big of a difference? I am partial to the 50mm objective and Reticle's of the S&B. The price is $3800 for the S&B with double turn and $3400 with single turn. The NF Atacr is $3200. But at that price range the difference is not huge.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate your time
 
guncrazy5606 said:
That's what I thought about the double turn turret from the S&B website but when speaking to wolverine today about ordering one they said it is an available option on the 4-16x50 MRAD. The biggest thing I hear is how amazing the glass is on the S&B!? So having looked through a new Atacr and S&B is their that big of a difference? I am partial to the 50mm objective and Reticle's of the S&B. The price is $3800 for the S&B with double turn and $3400 with single turn. The NF Atacr is $3200. But at that price range the difference is not huge.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate your time
Click to expand...

I dont think they are correct. I looked into it a couple yesrs ago and there was no DT option from the factory or even for retro-fit. There is a tall 13mil MTC turret available but no DT. I can't see this having changed. S&B are very stubborn and resistant to change. I can't see them defying this convention for an old model like the 4-16.
I'd call/email S&B directly before commiting. Direct it to Jerry Ricker.
As for the glass, S&B has typically been the gold standard/reference for optical quality. I'd be inclined to say the S&B glass might be a bit better but this is very subjective. I doubt there would be a real measureable difference between the two.
 
Ok thanks for the info. If there is no dt turret and the glass isn't noticeably better then I'll probably stick with NF and deal with the 42mm objective and Mil-r Reticle. I'll send a few emails and try to figure I out.
Thanks
 
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