Shadow 2 Hits The GTA

IM_Lugger said:
There's more Shadows on the EE right now than flies in a portapotty on a hot day!
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To be honest I was completely skeptical on what CZ could improve since the Shadow 1 is already very very good... but man did they make some noticeable improvements just from handling them side to side.

It shows people are willing to lose money on selling their Shadow 1 to get a Shadow 2.
 
the checkering is not cosmetic, the higher and deeper undercuts are not cosmetic, they contribute directly to how the gun handles, in a very significant way. The longer sight radius provides more accurate alignment of the sights and target. The only thing cosmetic is the color of the gun
 
Slavex said:
the checkering is not cosmetic, the higher and deeper undercuts are not cosmetic, they contribute directly to how the gun handles, in a very significant way. The longer sight radius provides more accurate alignment of the sights and target. The only thing cosmetic is the color of the gun
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Rob it has to have a meaningful impact on scoring to be meaningful otherwise it is just cosmetic. A C class shooter is not going to be an A Class shooter because of checkering. The Shadow has an undercut near the trigger guard, it was undercut at the beavertail with, for most, the best grip in handgun land. Making it a teeny weeny bit better is not going to have a meaningful impact on a B Class shooters score. Yes these are nice changes to have but skateboard tape on the front of the grip gives you the same grip effect as checkering, just isn't as nice looking. As I said the longer sight radius will help some as well as the additional weight of the gun. The latter probably will have the most impact on the shooters score as most A - D class shooters struggle controlling recoil. Is it worth an additional $500. based upon Shadows now selling for $1K.,..the purchaser will have to decide. Is it worth selling a Shadow for $750 - $800 to pay and additional $650 - $750, well the present Shadow owner can decide that for themselves. I already have the best DA/SA gun in my stable for the sport I shoot in the 75 Shadowline. The Shadow2 won't play in IDPA due to it's weight but in IPSC Production it will be a player.

Take Care

Bob
 
Where do you get this bizarre definition from Bob? The checkering improves the ability to grip the gun and drive it. It won't come off during a stage like grip tape can and it does a better job than even the most aggressive grip tape. The higher and deeper undercuts allow me to get a higher grip on the gun resulting in a lower bore axis it also allows a person with smaller hands to get a proper grip on the gun (like Maria) and allows us both to drive it faster more easily. These are not cosmetic just because a lower grade shooter might not enjoy the benefit. Based on that the difference between a Glock and Shadow is just cosmetic too.
 
Slavex said:
Where do you get this bizarre definition from Bob? The checkering improves the ability to grip the gun and drive it. It won't come off during a stage like grip tape can and it does a better job than even the most aggressive grip tape. The higher and deeper undercuts allow me to get a higher grip on the gun resulting in a lower bore axis it also allows a person with smaller hands to get a proper grip on the gun (like Maria) and allows us both to drive it faster more easily. These are not cosmetic just because a lower grade shooter might not enjoy the benefit. Based on that the difference between a Glock and Shadow is just cosmetic too.
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I think Bob is just talking out of thin air and has never handled the Shadow 2.
 
mebiuspower said:
They approved the Shadow 1 (and modified the weight restriction rule) so it's only a matter of time ...
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No what we asked for equal weights for all the pistol divisions. The winning pistols in IDPA are the polymer guns (Glock & M&P). They dominate the sport. Lighter, faster transitions and one very light trigger pull. You would see more of them in IPSC if the five lb trigger pull for production was removed. Good luck on convincing the Wilson's to increase the pistol weight to 48 oz. for a carry gun sport. We got to 43 oz because it made sense to do so and I might add also got the 97B into CDP Division and the Shadow into SSP Division.:>)

Rob features like you mention are features that top end shooters get a bit of help but the majority of shooters B thru D class are often not good enough to take advantage of what little benefit they provide. One only has to compare two pistol divisions in IDPA to see how little some of the features you mention have on scoring. SSP Division is designed for basic stock guns. You can play with the internals but can't touch the externals. Magwells are not allowed. ESP Division is wide open. Single action guns compete with DA/SA. Magwells are allowed and you basically can build your gun. With all the features you describe and more the scoring between the two divisions is virtually identical when you look at large matches across the various classifications.

From my limited experience with IPSC I don't see anyone winning their classification because they have a better gun. They win because they are better shooters. The Shadow2 has two features that potentially impact scoring, the heavier weight and the longer sight radius.

I always felt, as most do, the Shadow and it's siblings has one of the best grips ever designed on a gun. I don't ever recall having my hands slip on my Shadow, My 75 Sahdowline wears skateboard tape as do my my Combats, and checkering would be nice but the skateboard does work for me.

The gun will win an audience I am sure. I also appreciate you are a sponsored shooter for CZ and want to promote the features the gun has and those you mention are nice features and folks will pay the extra $500 to have one on their hip. Smart marketing by CZ. They have always made an excellent pistol. Consistent fit and finish is an outstanding aspect of their guns. The Shadow2 is no exception and will sell.

mebiuspower I have handled lots of guns but over the years I have found that handling them at the counter seldom translates into me acquiring improved shooting skills. Unfortunately for my pocketbook the handling is often what sells the gun, after a while you too will get to know this. The Shadow2 is big and it is heavy. It maybe perfect for you. Drop $1,500 down and go find out.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
No what we asked for equal weights for all the pistol divisions. The winning pistols in IDPA are the polymer guns (Glock & M&P). They dominate the sport. Lighter, faster transitions and one very light trigger pull. You would see more of them in IPSC if the five lb trigger pull for production was removed. Good luck on convincing the Wilson's to increase the pistol weight to 48 oz. for a carry gun sport. We got to 43 oz because it made sense to do so and I might add also got the 97B into CDP Division and the Shadow into SSP Division.:>)

Rob features like you mention are features that top end shooters get a bit of help but the majority of shooters B thru D class are often not good enough to take advantage of what little benefit they provide. One only has to compare two pistol divisions in IDPA to see how little some of the features you mention have on scoring. SSP Division is designed for basic stock guns. You can play with the internals but can't touch the externals. Magwells are not allowed. ESP Division is wide open. Single action guns compete with DA/SA. Magwells are allowed and you basically can build your gun. With all the features you describe and more the scoring between the two divisions is virtually identical when you look at large matches across the various classifications.

From my limited experience with IPSC I don't see anyone winning their classification because they have a better gun. They win because they are better shooters. The Shadow2 has two features that potentially impact scoring, the heavier weight and the longer sight radius.

I always felt, as most do, the Shadow and it's siblings has one of the best grips ever designed on a gun. I don't ever recall having my hands slip on my Shadow, My 75 Sahdowline wears skateboard tape as do my my Combats, and checkering would be nice but the skateboard does work for me.

The gun will win an audience I am sure. I also appreciate you are a sponsored shooter for CZ and want to promote the features the gun has and those you mention are nice features and folks will pay the extra $500 to have one on their hip. Smart marketing by CZ. They have always made an excellent pistol. Consistent fit and finish is an outstanding aspect of their guns. The Shadow2 is no exception and will sell.

mebiuspower I have handled lots of guns but over the years I have found that handling them at the counter seldom translates into me acquiring improved shooting skills. Unfortunately for my pocketbook the handling is often what sells the gun, after a while you too will get to know this. The Shadow2 is big and it is heavy. It maybe perfect for you. Drop $1,500 down and go find out.

Take Care

Bob
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I don't know if I agree Bob. The top guys benefit less from that "perfect gun" than the lesser skilled shooters.

Vogel has won IPSC Worlds in production with a Glock when there were tons of Shadows. Shane Coley has been on fire with the Glock too. Beating Ben in the US IPSC Nationals with it this year.

I know when I was a few classes lower and switched to a Stock 2 the follow up shots and long shots were noticbly much better as were my match results.

In my opinion the better and better one gets the less and less the gun impacts the results.
 
cbabes said:
I don't know if I agree Bob. The top guys benefit less from that "perfect gun" than the lesser skilled shooters.

Vogel has won IPSC Worlds in production with a Glock when there were tons of Shadows. Shane Coley has been on fire with the Glock too. Beating Ben in the US IPSC Nationals with it this year.

I know when I was a few classes lower and switched to a Stock 2 the follow up shots and long shots were noticbly much better as were my match results.

In my opinion the better and better one gets the less and less the gun impacts the results.
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The features you mention don;t have that much impact. on scoring to start with. The problem I see and have observed is the lwer class shoter does not have the skills to take advantage of what little improvement some features offer. eg. A faster reset or a super light trigger. The 85 Combat I have that was worked on by Ken Soucie has the fastest reset I have ever seen on a CZ. I am not sure if one can get one much faster without the gun going full auto. I know I can't take advantage of the reset. I just don;t have fast enough reflexs. I suspect a guy like Vogel or Leatham can and do. The same is true of a very light trigger. A light trigger will benefit Rob far more than it will me because he can get his guns sight picture faster than I can. A light trigger helps him. To light a trigger in my hands can actually hurt me because I end up letting the shot off sooner than I might otherwise do so. I know you know that scoring in IPSC and IDPA is not all about shooting the gun. There are so many other aspects of the games that top shooters do that average shooters don't do to score well.

Just my opinion though, if a shooter thinks his newest master blaster is helping his scoring then for him it is and that is all that matters. We buy guns for more reasons than to improve our score eg my recent purchase of a new/used Shadow. :>) If we all felt the same way there would be one happy lady in the world and a whole lot of unhappy ones.

Good to hear you are still chasing targets.

Take Care

Bob
 
Thanks for the info. Good to know - I've got 13lb springs from a shadow 1 that I could try out.


Slavex said:
same hammer spring, same recoil spring, same sear spring, same mag catch spring, same firing pin spring, same slide catch spring, same mags. Sights are also interchangeable. Slide stop is not, mag catch is though, but probably not IPSC legal if that matters.


"lessen the take up" what exactly do you mean by this? Lessen the weight or the distance? I prefer the 11lb mainsprings (also known as hammer springs) I got from CZ years ago, but they don't sell them anymore. the next best is the 11.5 from Cajun Gun Works (not IPSC legal). You can also get an 8.5lb from CGW but need to use Federal primers with that one.
If you want to reduce the DA length of pull, well, you can't.
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luv2roll said:
Thanks for the info. Good to know - I've got 13lb springs from a shadow 1 that I could try out.
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Let us know how this works. I read in another post somewhere that the shadow 2 spring is shorter and that there is no difference in using a 13lb spring from an original shadow. This is confusing in that the shadow 2 is supposed to ship with a 16lb spring, and Slavex says that they use the same springs, so I don't know what to believe. I have a 13lb spring on order, but it wont arrive until next week sometime :(, so the confusion is killing me.
 
....ok....that is one sweet reset!! The DA pull is an eternity though. Love the feel!! And....I just got a package with 1000 rounds for the weekend! Who-Hoo!
 
Got a chance to try it out after work today. Put 100 rounds through her.

Very nice! That's my review. I had planned an in depth review with lots of pictures and a video, but the trolling has been brutal lately.
 
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