At long last this rifle and barrel situation has reached a turning point. Some of you may have seen the thread I started about a gunsmith I went to who damaged my Lilja barrel. Unfortunately the mods removed that thread. The truth shall not be suppressed and I will just start this post describing some of the things that happened. I did not get immediate joy with the new Lilja barrel and honestly the first few targets I shot with it were so embarrassing I did not want to post them. I consulted with a well respected custom builder of CZ rifles who is a member on Rimfire Central to troubleshoot this build and it was suggested that I check the headspace and get it adjusted if necessary. If that didn't work re-bedding may need to be considered as I took a shortcut and had the new bedding skin over the old bedding. Between those two items the problem should be solved. I measured headspace to be 0.048"-0.049" which certainly needed to be addressed. The required adjustment is easy, put it in a lathe and zip off the required material from the shoulder of the barrel.
I brought it back to the business that imported the barrel for me, Grand River Gunsmithing in Welland, Ontario. I described to them how the new barrel was not meeting accuracy standards, presented my headspace findings and specifically requested that it be adjusted down to 0.043" and not to do any other work at this time. I have this fully documented in my email records as we never spoke on the phone I put everything in writing. When I dropped it off to them I went over the desired work in detail with them so there would be no confusion. It was agreed that they would double check my measurement and then perform the required headspace adjustment. After nearly two months of waiting (can't do anything without GO gauges, they said) I finally hear back that they've now re-cut my crown, sanded out my barrel bedding, adjusted my scope and all this other nonsense that I neither requested or approved. Didn't touch the headspace. It's "in spec" I'm told. I recover my rifle from them and find the pictured damage.
The pictures speak for themselves about the workmanship provided, again, doing things I did not approve. It is shameful that any business would present a customer with their property in such a condition. When confronted about the damage requesting either the headspace adjustment done at no extra cost or a refund of what I was charged Grand River terminated communication with me. What kind of customer service attitude is that? They completely failed to improve the accuracy of my rifle by ignoring the one thing I specifically told them to do that would ultimately resolve the problem and returned it to me worse than I had brought it in and brushed me aside like I couldn't possibly know anything.
In light of Grand River's refusal to make the situation right I had to find another shop to A) repair the damage caused and B) get the headspace adjusted to the proper spec. The work done by the second shop is excellent and here is a comparison photo they took for me of the damaged crown and their repair.
They also managed to do this without damaging the barrel's finish like Grand River had done. There was a little back and forth here too about the headspace and I had to test fire the rifle with only the crown repair done then go back and show them that doing this alone only brought me back to square one and there was still an issue to sort out. They ended up taking off 0.004" from the shoulder of the barrel. Finally! The end result is the rifle headspacing at 0.0425" and that is in the accuracy zone. It does not close on a GO gauge (shock and horror!! Neither do my Annie 64 MSR or Weatherby XXII....) and that is just fine by anyone who builds accurate .22's and knows what they're doing. They first presented me their findings that the headspace was 0.0445" which was quite off from my own findings. I could not accept that at face value. Either somebody made an error or there's something being missed here. I acquired a depth micrometer and started digging. I confirmed breech face to bolt nose recess to be 0.0445" as I was told, testing again with plastigage confirmed my previous findings of 0.048". What is being missed? The first thing I found was that the bolt guide was preventing the barrel from fully seating. The shank length of the barrel was 1.191" and the breech face butts right up to the bolt guide. Measuring from the receiver face to the bolt guide was 1.189". Being less than the shank length of the barrel this pushed out the barrel 0.002". That brings me up to 0.0465" ok halfway there, what else? I filed down the bolt guide so the barrel would fully seat. I wondered i my method of measuring rim thickness was accurate so I first measured it with my caliper rig then chambered the casing and checked with the depth micrometer. I got a reading 0.002" less with the depth micrometer. With the way this chamber is cut a casing sits recessed by 0.002" from the breech face. Now we are up to 0.0485" and I have figured out the discrepancies.
When a GO gauge and a casing are compared, the gauge has a wider base than the casing which extends over the chamber recess so the gauge references off of the breech face instead of in the recess like a casing. This gives a false reading. Not all chambers are cut with such a recess such as with my Annie where both a casing and gauge will reference off the breech face.
With that all squared away and the adjustment done it was time to get this rifle back together, with some tweaks! As you may know the barrel screws can stress and distort the chamber if over torqued so I glued in the barrel with loctite 680 for a stress free attachment. I also completely hogged out the old bedding and re-bedded the whole action.
I also re-shaped the firing pin as in factory condition the strike overlaps the rim edge, crushing the double roll wasting energy. Tweaked to hit just inside the rim edge puts all the energy into ignition. This is specifically tuned for .22LR and does not allow me to switch to other calibers like the 455 was intended to do. Moot point with a glued barrel
Grand River also fed me a line of total hogwash that reducing the headspace would cause the firing pin to pierce the casing causing dangerous blow back of gasses at me. Headspace reduced with a narrower firing pin footprint and 500 rounds sent downrange with no pierced rims prove it to be perfectly safe. I was also told the bolt would not close if the headspace was reduced. I measured bolt to breech clearance and was also provided this measurement by the second shop. There was 0.0085" clearance, ample room for adjustment. I would just like to take a moment to define a word as per Merriam-Webster's dictionary.
incompetent
adjective in·com·pe·tent \(ˌ)in-ˈkäm-pə-tənt\
Popularity: Top 40% of words
Simple Definition of incompetent
: lacking necessary ability or skills
law : not able to take part in a trial
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
I like the English language, words are fun. Isn't incompetent a fun word? I'm not sure how it's relevant to this post, I sometimes go off on random tangents oh well
So here's what everyone's been waiting for, target pics! There's still work to be done but I'll expand on that as I go. I got a chronograph to see how the various ammos I have are performing. I've got some high end stuff that needs to justify it's price tag. All shooting done at 50 yards. Let's go with Federal Match 922A to begin. I must preface that through the various targets and ammo types I was trying different hold techniques and would shim the barrel for 5 groups here and there. I cannot remember exactly what I did on any given group. In this first target it can be seen that accuracy is now attainable in this rifle, consistency was elusive. This is the big change from doing the headspace adjustment sub 1/2" groups just weren't happening before.
Shot some RWS R50 and likewise good groups and bad groups, no rhyme or reason. One's vertical the other horizontal the next wild. Chrony isn't showing me anything that definitively explains the vertical as the horizontal groups are shot with the same velocity spread.
Eley Team pretty good target until the end.
I tried 10 different ammos with similar results. Chronograph eliminated bad ammo (may give insight into preferred velocity range), barreled action is set up perfectly and bedded, what's left? I've tried every shooting technique I know but can't eliminate the bad groups. I'm at the end of a 7 hour session, last box of ammo, and while I've seen a great improvement I know this rifle should be much more consistent. I thought, well I've tried holding it firm and pulling it in tight to my shoulder, how about I push it down and away from me, hard, into the rest? Minimal cheek weld, no shoulder contact just pinning the rifle down like it's under arrest lol. It worked. Excuse the first group top left with the first shot out left, clean barrel needs to settle in. I finally saw consistency, not the tightest groups but consistent. It was a very tiring shooting technique but if I managed this at the end of the day tired and frustrated I'm sure I can do better when fresh knowing this is what it takes.
To confirm this I still had a half box of Eley sport so I quickly fired off a few more groups and as you can see the new technique tightened up the consistency greatly, blue paper were the other techniques red/white paper the death hold.
So my conclusion now is that the barreled action is as good as it can be, shows great accuracy potential but is being held back by the difficulty of shooting the slim, light American style stock. Here we come to the crossroads of equipment and shooter ability. A skilled shooter can, to a degree and with great difficulty, overcome the handicap of the equipment and shoot good groups. In it's current stock I don't feel that I can realize the full accuracy potential of the barreled action. It doesn't make for a relaxing day at the range to have to shoot it with the required technique either. That said, next is to try it out for offhand shooting as a hunter class silhouette rifle. I have it and my Weatherby XXII to choose from. I would also like to see the full potential of the barrel as a bench rifle so a different stock is required to test that, the factory stock just does not do it justice on the bench. It's been a heck of a journey and a great relief to finally get things sorted out. The best is still yet to come
I brought it back to the business that imported the barrel for me, Grand River Gunsmithing in Welland, Ontario. I described to them how the new barrel was not meeting accuracy standards, presented my headspace findings and specifically requested that it be adjusted down to 0.043" and not to do any other work at this time. I have this fully documented in my email records as we never spoke on the phone I put everything in writing. When I dropped it off to them I went over the desired work in detail with them so there would be no confusion. It was agreed that they would double check my measurement and then perform the required headspace adjustment. After nearly two months of waiting (can't do anything without GO gauges, they said) I finally hear back that they've now re-cut my crown, sanded out my barrel bedding, adjusted my scope and all this other nonsense that I neither requested or approved. Didn't touch the headspace. It's "in spec" I'm told. I recover my rifle from them and find the pictured damage.
The pictures speak for themselves about the workmanship provided, again, doing things I did not approve. It is shameful that any business would present a customer with their property in such a condition. When confronted about the damage requesting either the headspace adjustment done at no extra cost or a refund of what I was charged Grand River terminated communication with me. What kind of customer service attitude is that? They completely failed to improve the accuracy of my rifle by ignoring the one thing I specifically told them to do that would ultimately resolve the problem and returned it to me worse than I had brought it in and brushed me aside like I couldn't possibly know anything.
In light of Grand River's refusal to make the situation right I had to find another shop to A) repair the damage caused and B) get the headspace adjusted to the proper spec. The work done by the second shop is excellent and here is a comparison photo they took for me of the damaged crown and their repair.
They also managed to do this without damaging the barrel's finish like Grand River had done. There was a little back and forth here too about the headspace and I had to test fire the rifle with only the crown repair done then go back and show them that doing this alone only brought me back to square one and there was still an issue to sort out. They ended up taking off 0.004" from the shoulder of the barrel. Finally! The end result is the rifle headspacing at 0.0425" and that is in the accuracy zone. It does not close on a GO gauge (shock and horror!! Neither do my Annie 64 MSR or Weatherby XXII....) and that is just fine by anyone who builds accurate .22's and knows what they're doing. They first presented me their findings that the headspace was 0.0445" which was quite off from my own findings. I could not accept that at face value. Either somebody made an error or there's something being missed here. I acquired a depth micrometer and started digging. I confirmed breech face to bolt nose recess to be 0.0445" as I was told, testing again with plastigage confirmed my previous findings of 0.048". What is being missed? The first thing I found was that the bolt guide was preventing the barrel from fully seating. The shank length of the barrel was 1.191" and the breech face butts right up to the bolt guide. Measuring from the receiver face to the bolt guide was 1.189". Being less than the shank length of the barrel this pushed out the barrel 0.002". That brings me up to 0.0465" ok halfway there, what else? I filed down the bolt guide so the barrel would fully seat. I wondered i my method of measuring rim thickness was accurate so I first measured it with my caliper rig then chambered the casing and checked with the depth micrometer. I got a reading 0.002" less with the depth micrometer. With the way this chamber is cut a casing sits recessed by 0.002" from the breech face. Now we are up to 0.0485" and I have figured out the discrepancies.
When a GO gauge and a casing are compared, the gauge has a wider base than the casing which extends over the chamber recess so the gauge references off of the breech face instead of in the recess like a casing. This gives a false reading. Not all chambers are cut with such a recess such as with my Annie where both a casing and gauge will reference off the breech face.
With that all squared away and the adjustment done it was time to get this rifle back together, with some tweaks! As you may know the barrel screws can stress and distort the chamber if over torqued so I glued in the barrel with loctite 680 for a stress free attachment. I also completely hogged out the old bedding and re-bedded the whole action.
I also re-shaped the firing pin as in factory condition the strike overlaps the rim edge, crushing the double roll wasting energy. Tweaked to hit just inside the rim edge puts all the energy into ignition. This is specifically tuned for .22LR and does not allow me to switch to other calibers like the 455 was intended to do. Moot point with a glued barrel
Grand River also fed me a line of total hogwash that reducing the headspace would cause the firing pin to pierce the casing causing dangerous blow back of gasses at me. Headspace reduced with a narrower firing pin footprint and 500 rounds sent downrange with no pierced rims prove it to be perfectly safe. I was also told the bolt would not close if the headspace was reduced. I measured bolt to breech clearance and was also provided this measurement by the second shop. There was 0.0085" clearance, ample room for adjustment. I would just like to take a moment to define a word as per Merriam-Webster's dictionary.incompetent
adjective in·com·pe·tent \(ˌ)in-ˈkäm-pə-tənt\
Popularity: Top 40% of words
Simple Definition of incompetent
: lacking necessary ability or skills
law : not able to take part in a trial
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
I like the English language, words are fun. Isn't incompetent a fun word? I'm not sure how it's relevant to this post, I sometimes go off on random tangents
oh well So here's what everyone's been waiting for, target pics! There's still work to be done but I'll expand on that as I go. I got a chronograph to see how the various ammos I have are performing. I've got some high end stuff that needs to justify it's price tag. All shooting done at 50 yards. Let's go with Federal Match 922A to begin. I must preface that through the various targets and ammo types I was trying different hold techniques and would shim the barrel for 5 groups here and there. I cannot remember exactly what I did on any given group. In this first target it can be seen that accuracy is now attainable in this rifle, consistency was elusive. This is the big change from doing the headspace adjustment sub 1/2" groups just weren't happening before.
Shot some RWS R50 and likewise good groups and bad groups, no rhyme or reason. One's vertical the other horizontal the next wild. Chrony isn't showing me anything that definitively explains the vertical as the horizontal groups are shot with the same velocity spread.
Eley Team pretty good target until the end.
I tried 10 different ammos with similar results. Chronograph eliminated bad ammo (may give insight into preferred velocity range), barreled action is set up perfectly and bedded, what's left? I've tried every shooting technique I know but can't eliminate the bad groups. I'm at the end of a 7 hour session, last box of ammo, and while I've seen a great improvement I know this rifle should be much more consistent. I thought, well I've tried holding it firm and pulling it in tight to my shoulder, how about I push it down and away from me, hard, into the rest? Minimal cheek weld, no shoulder contact just pinning the rifle down like it's under arrest lol. It worked. Excuse the first group top left with the first shot out left, clean barrel needs to settle in. I finally saw consistency, not the tightest groups but consistent. It was a very tiring shooting technique but if I managed this at the end of the day tired and frustrated I'm sure I can do better when fresh knowing this is what it takes.
To confirm this I still had a half box of Eley sport so I quickly fired off a few more groups and as you can see the new technique tightened up the consistency greatly, blue paper were the other techniques red/white paper the death hold.
So my conclusion now is that the barreled action is as good as it can be, shows great accuracy potential but is being held back by the difficulty of shooting the slim, light American style stock. Here we come to the crossroads of equipment and shooter ability. A skilled shooter can, to a degree and with great difficulty, overcome the handicap of the equipment and shoot good groups. In it's current stock I don't feel that I can realize the full accuracy potential of the barreled action. It doesn't make for a relaxing day at the range to have to shoot it with the required technique either. That said, next is to try it out for offhand shooting as a hunter class silhouette rifle. I have it and my Weatherby XXII to choose from. I would also like to see the full potential of the barrel as a bench rifle so a different stock is required to test that, the factory stock just does not do it justice on the bench. It's been a heck of a journey and a great relief to finally get things sorted out. The best is still yet to come
bought a 452 & 455 DIP 25MOA rail & 2 extended mag releases
