SxS defense shotgun

soulchaser said:
That's tongue in cheek I'm sure but it brings up something interesting. I have several friends in the US in States that have explicit castle doctrine law. Those States still have anti gun prosecutors that will try to screw you over.

One of the ways they will try to do that is by looking at the firearm the home owner used. A couple of my buddies (in different States) were told by police it is better to use a firearm one would typically use for hunting with ammo that is marketed as hunting ammo as opposed to guns and ammunition marketed as self defense or personal protection even though it may be exactly the same as the hunting ammo in a different box. They say the prosecutors would try to argue you were basically arming yourself with self defence gear hoping someone would break in so you could shoot them.
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3 SSS's ..... that's the position we're being forced into.
 
soulchaser said:
They say the prosecutors would try to argue you were basically arming yourself with self defence gear hoping someone would break in so you could shoot them.
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A pencil neck prosecutor could try and plant that notion all they want, but it's no different than gearing up to be prepared for a tornado or a flood. No one wants those either, but someone is still going to have the necessary prepped gear and equipment for those equally likely/unlikely situations.
 
madashell said:
Ok, that's old school Zombie killin'. A memo went out after that... Pump/00-Z-max. Notice he hasn't done any Zombie movies since ?? Rest my case.
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They are (apparently) finally making some progress on a sequel though :)
http://comicbook.com/2016/08/29/paul-wernick-and-rhett-reese-confirm-they-are-currently-working-/

So, yah never know... Columbus could show up all tacti-cool with a Magpul furniture 870, a Surefire forend and Z-max ammo...

I'm putting my money on the Chiappa Triple Threat... somebody has to incorporate that beast into a Zombie movie before too long... too much potential.
 
EL34/6L6 said:
A pencil neck prosecutor could try and plant that notion all they want, but it's no different than gearing up to be prepared for a tornado or a flood. No one wants those either, but someone is still going to have the necessary prepped gear and equipment for those equally likely/unlikely situations.
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My brother-in-law was up on a firearms offence several years ago. He was not the brightest but really had not broken any law, typical cop b**l#### when it comes right down to it.

I was his surety and was instrumental in getting him off of something he was not guilty of. Anyway, early on in the process I'm waiting in the court hallway. Someone calls my name I identify myself.

I'm sitting down, so this guy leans down and in close so no one else will hear (except my wife, she was right beside me). Identifies himself as the prosecutor and says "if it were up to him, none of you people would ever own any guns". I look him in the eye and tell him he's lucky we are not alone in a dark alley because I'd beat him.

B-in-L's case was dropped and got his guns back. One year and 10 grand shorter because he didn't break any law.

True story.

These are the kind of ass**les were dealing with.
 
Have a look at that and decide...Paul knows what he's talking about. And with me,it's probably not hard to guess...I'd use one for that purpose, even having pumps and levers too.

CG

 
I think it's a terrible idea. To invest any time or money into this "build" for home defense situations is borderline absurd. With so many other practical platforms out there, why would you ever want to limit yourself to a SxS shotgun?

If you were in a situation where it's the only firearm you're ever going to own, then you'll obviouly make do with it and live with the limitations of your choice.

So, you're looking for rock solid reliability and ease of use under high stress situations? Buy yourself a Glock and don't look back. If you "need" to have a shotgun then get a pump - any pump at all would be far superior.

At the end of the day, you have to answer to your family. If you sincerely believe you're adequately protecting your life and their's with a SxS shotgun, then I highly doubt we're going to convince you otherwise.

Best of luck to you. I hope you're never put into a situation where you're going to learn from making a life threatening mistake.
 
If you can find them in the EE, the Ricol 14" over/under 12 gauge could be suitable for what you're looking for. If fired them, they're loads of fun to shoot and reload, the electors launch the empty shells quite far actually.

Not sure if I'd use it for defence for anything, but it is a fun little shotgun.
 
Mossberg_590A1 said:
I think it's a terrible idea. To invest any time or money into this "build" for home defense situations is borderline absurd. With so many other practical platforms out there, why would you ever want to limit yourself to a SxS shotgun?

If you were in a situation where it's the only firearm you're ever going to own, then you'll obviouly make do with it and live with the limitations of your choice.

So, you're looking for rock solid reliability and ease of use under high stress situations? Buy yourself a Glock and don't look back. If you "need" to have a shotgun then get a pump - any pump at all would be far superior.

At the end of the day, you have to answer to your family. If you sincerely believe you're adequately protecting your life and their's with a SxS shotgun, then I highly doubt we're going to convince you otherwise.

Best of luck to you. I hope you're never put into a situation where you're going to learn from making a life threatening mistake.
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couldn't agree more.
 
Yes a pump when fully loaded has the advantage, the only question is (and since this is Canada it must be unloaded) how much longer does it take to load that pump? A SxS can be loaded much faster than a pump ever will be, and in a home invasion scenario I don't want to be trying to load my 7 or 8 rounds into the shotgun when buddy is right around the corner (expecially in a high stress scenario, I know I have a hard enough time loading my 870 at the best of times).

Crack the double, load it, close it. You now have two shots. For the unlikely scenario you need more than two shots you can have two more in your weak hand ready to load quickly and get back up and running when your empty. With that you now have 4 shots in a relatively quick amount of time. As mentioned it is also easier for people less trained on firearms to use, much like a revolver is in comparison to a handgun.

Not saying the pump doesn't have advantages (such as more firepower when fully loaded), and the SxS doesn't have disadvantages (limited firepower when loaded) but as mentioned home defence isn't you vs. the world type scenarios, generally it is you vs. 1-3 people max which are generally not trying to kill you.
 
If you are following the laws in this country a firearm can not be stored loaded unless it is being used for predator protection which home defense is not. So an unloaded pump action or an unloaded double barrel. Which will take more time to load in a home defense situation. I suspect loading one shell into a pump would be faster, loading two shells into a double would probably be faster than two shells into a pump. It is pretty much immaterial. What is material is how you will legally store a firearm and accessible ammo regardless of what you chose.
 
JBD said:
If you are following the laws in this country a firearm can not be stored loaded unless it is being used for predator protection which home defense is not. So an unloaded pump action or an unloaded double barrel. Which will take more time to load in a home defense situation. I suspect loading one shell into a pump would be faster, loading two shells into a double would probably be faster than two shells into a pump. It is pretty much immaterial. What is material is how you will legally store a firearm and accessible ammo regardless of what you chose.
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If limited to a shotgun under your scenario, I'd rather have a pump gun with a velcro shotgun card set up. Keep the gun empty and then grab a few pre-loaded cards ready to go. Much easier than trying to fumble around with loose rounds in the dark and take the chance of dropping some because your hands are shaking because of the induced stress.

If you really want to take this thread into obsurdity, you could always argue the point that a 590A1 is the superior option because you could employ a bayonette, allowing yourself a means of defense when you are either out of rounds or don't have the time or ability to load them. However, I'm not advocating that position, so I'll allow others to ponder the possibilities.
 
Mossberg_590A1 said:
If limited to a shotgun under your scenario, I'd rather have a pump gun with a velcro shotgun card set up. Keep the gun empty and then grab a few pre-loaded cards ready to go. Much easier than trying to fumble around with loose rounds in the dark and take the chance of dropping some because your hands are shaking because of the induced stress.

If you really want to take this thread into obsurdity, you could always argue the point that a 590A1 is the superior option because you could employ a bayonette, allowing yourself a means of defense when you are either out of rounds or don't have the time or ability to load them. However, I'm not advocating that position, so I'll allow others to ponder the possibilities.
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I can imagine few things more frightful than encountering a naked man wielding a shotgun (loaded or not) with a bayonet affixed...
 
You guys are missing my point it does not matter. Legally your shotgun cards would have to be put somewhere that is not easily accessible to the firearm or locked in a safe with it. Whether this or that is better is immaterial if it can not be loaded and ready if it is needed. Almost everything about home defense originates from the United States which has different rules and regulations compared to our country.
 
jbd said:
you guys are missing my point it does not matter. Legally your shotgun cards would have to be put somewhere that is not easily accessible to the firearm or locked in a safe with it. Whether this or that is better is immaterial if it can not be loaded and ready if it is needed. Almost everything about home defense originates from the united states which has different rules and regulations compared to our country.
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because canada is f****d.
 
madashell said:
I hear ya, it's not the worst idea ever.

Ok, maybe a SxS to get off a couple shots before you pick up the pump.
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Keep a single shot break action .410 with slugs beside bed w/lock thru break extra shell available with 12 gauge available in closet with ammo available on route. Choice of 7.62x25 auto or 38 special revolver cylinder lock and 32 auto I figger it will do the job. .410 scare hell out of them with 12 g backup the rest for outdoor work if required.
 
As long as you ensure that your property is slow and noisy enough to break into, the loading time of your chosen firearm probably isn't all that important.
 
With a hundred pound Alaskan Malamute (she sleeps UNDER the bed of all places). Nothing gets on my porches that I don't hear about.
 
Mossberg_590A1 said:
I think it's a terrible idea. To invest any time or money into this "build" for home defense situations is borderline absurd. With so many other practical platforms out there, why would you ever want to limit yourself to a SxS shotgun?

If you were in a situation where it's the only firearm you're ever going to own, then you'll obviouly make do with it and live with the limitations of your choice.

So, you're looking for rock solid reliability and ease of use under high stress situations? Buy yourself a Glock and don't look back. If you "need" to have a shotgun then get a pump - any pump at all would be far superior.

At the end of the day, you have to answer to your family. If you sincerely believe you're adequately protecting your life and their's with a SxS shotgun, then I highly doubt we're going to convince you otherwise.

Best of luck to you. I hope you're never put into a situation where you're going to learn from making a life threatening mistake.
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And...

madashell said:
couldn't agree more.
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So... do you two even have a restricted license or own a Glock? From looking into the OP's nothing indicates that he has a RPAL ...and of all handguns, only experienced shooters can really score with a Glock. You are well spoken but in order not to come off like a "Internet tough guy" get some facts together first. A handgun has its thing in carry and close up defense if you're not at home... A shotgun out to 50 yds does everything a handgun can,but better...above 50 yds a rifle does anything better than the two previous together. The OP asked for home defense...
As others stated, with Canadian law you're in trouble anyway if they find you must have kept it loaded ( or worse used a restricted ). The SxS will do against 5 intruders in a room...the first goes splat, and no one else wants to die next. This isn't about zombie apocalypse or internet games here. And if you have multiple armed attackers, determined to kill you and your family,even over cost of their own life...get another job. Biker leader,mobster or drug lord was a bad choice.:rolleyes:
As for loading in the dark under stress...yah, the pump and the card,eh? I got a stock sock on my SxS,you pull two out,feed two in without fumbling them two around,with family protection in mind, because even my ( not remotely interested in firearms ) wife can handle that.
And yes...the 590 is superior, even without bajonett , if you have to use it as a club, you won't bend it. And it has the safety where it should be contrary to the 870. Both are outdated anyway ( have both )...my UTS is shorter and holds twice the amount of rounds.
Still would use the SxS for HD...if i'm going into dreamworld, well...I can mow everything down with a M2. :jerkit:

CG
 
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