Round limit for pistol mag carbines?

Hovenator

Hovenator

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BC Fraser Valley
Hello All,

Just venturing into the "black/green" world. I'm interested in the pistol caliber carbine rifles such as the Keltec Sub 2000 and the CX-4. These come with a 10 round pistol mag. As long as the barrel length is 18.5 and over, then it is N/R which is what I want. Where do the regulations say that the 10 rounds are prmissable? I thought center fire rifles had to have 5 or less. I had an SKS's and it was pinned to 5. I have been trying to make sense of the Regs but it's not quite clear to me!

I have been looking at Part 4 of "Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts
of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohib-
ited, Restricted or Non-Restricted"

Seems to have some "does not pertain to section 1a kind of paragraphs."

P.S. I have seen that some people are a little up tight about questions like this as they think that people are "trolling." I am not trolling. I would just like to be able to print out the section or regulations and take it with me when I get one of these.

Thanks
 
Mag is designed for a pistol, so 10 rounds...

Now that said, the CX-4 can also accept beretta 96 mags at 13 round capacity of 9mm. (since chambered for .40)


See special bulletin 72 from the RCMP.

It lays it out for you.
 
Basically the argument by people who have and use pistol magazines is this :

If the magazine says pistol on it you can have 10 rounds and then if you can put it into your gun and shoot then its "legal"
If the magazine doesn't say pistol on it then the max is 5 rounds

Another is the .40 handgun magazine which can hold 10 .40 but 13 9mm so you can have 13 rounds legally because it can still only hold 10 .40

With that said tho there are some police and judges who might argue that this argument is wrong and you could still find yourself having to defend yourself in court it has happened before and probably will happen again.

But I have seen that for like $90 a year you can buy gun owner insurance which if you found yourself in that position it wouldn't cost you financially to defend yourself in court :) For $90 a year that seems like a smart use of money for any gun owner

Oh and special bulletin 72 is where its written http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm
 
Hovenator said:
Hello All,

Just venturing into the "black/green" world. I'm interested in the pistol caliber carbine rifles such as the Keltec Sub 2000 and the CX-4. These come with a 10 round pistol mag. As long as the barrel length is 18.5 and over, then it is N/R which is what I want. Where do the regulations say that the 10 rounds are prmissable? I thought center fire rifles had to have 5 or less. I had an SKS's and it was pinned to 5. I have been trying to make sense of the Regs but it's not quite clear to me!

I have been looking at Part 4 of "Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts
of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohib-
ited, Restricted or Non-Restricted"

Seems to have some "does not pertain to section 1a kind of paragraphs."

P.S. I have seen that some people are a little up tight about questions like this as they think that people are "trolling." I am not trolling. I would just like to be able to print out the section or regulations and take it with me when I get one of these.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Welcome to the black/green world.

Good news: The Liberal government is about to pass legislation/regulations making the mag limit issue VERY clear.

Bad news: Depending upon your viewpoint, you won't like the clarification.
 
Oh no, the lieberal government won't have anything to do with it. It will all be the rcmp's doing....just ask them.:puke:
 
Thanks for the feed back! I will have to have a read of bulletin 72.

Hopefully the Libs will step in a few more wasps nest like they did with the carbon tax issue. Keep themselves "busy" with other things and leave the guns alone.
 
The widely accepted interpretation is any magazine is either prohibited over 5 rounds or prohibited over 10 rounds or no regulated capacity based on the type of cartridge and the type of firearm it was 'designed or manufactured for use in'

That's the key concept. The magazine is regulated, by itself regardless of if it is inserted in a specific firearm or not. The legal capacity of a handgun magazine doesn't change if you use it in a handgun or long gun.

The rules are here, specifically Part 4
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/page-2.html
 
Just something to think about. Long story short. My bosses son got charged for 10 round pistol mag in his CX4. A year later and $14000 later he had to take a deal because he ran out of money. Crown was presented the facts and said he didn't care wanted to take it in front of a judge. Which would have been a lot more money.. Another reason to have insurance. Also his bad luck to get a Guns and Gangs Crown even though it had no connections to gangs or any real crime but a p..off ex girlfriend.
 
Beav said:
Just something to think about. Long story short. My bosses son got charged for 10 round pistol mag in his CX4. A year later and $14000 later he had to take a deal because he ran out of money. Crown was presented the facts and said he didn't care wanted to take it in front of a judge. Which would have been a lot more money.. Another reason to have insurance. Also his bad luck to get a Guns and Gangs Crown even though it had no connections to gangs or any real crime but a p..off ex girlfriend.
Click to expand...

"Punishment by process"...happens all the time. The police and the crown hold all the cards (unlimited resources) when it comes to these situations and they never are held responsible for their actions. If they want to rake you over the coals they can.

Having said that, I carry a copy of RCMP bulletin 72 in my range bag. I figure having it might just nip this sort of problem in the bud before it gets too far.
 
Beav said:
Just something to think about. Long story short. My bosses son got charged for 10 round pistol mag in his CX4. A year later and $14000 later he had to take a deal because he ran out of money. Crown was presented the facts and said he didn't care wanted to take it in front of a judge. Which would have been a lot more money.. Another reason to have insurance. Also his bad luck to get a Guns and Gangs Crown even though it had no connections to gangs or any real crime but a p..off ex girlfriend.
Click to expand...

Exactly why I was asking about this! Will definitely have a copy of Bulletin 72 with me.

There has to be more to this story though. If I can buy this firearm legally, from a Canadian dealer and bulletin 72 confirms the pistol mag is legal, how could the Crown possibly proceed with "charges?"

Being fairly new to the firearms world I find it rediculous that this can happen. Are things really this bad for the gun owner?

If the answer is yes, then 1) where do I get this insurance and 2) which organization do I join to fight this kind of Horse $hit!
 
Hovenator said:
Exactly why I was asking about this! Will definitely have a copy of Bulletin 72 with me.

There has to be more to this story though. If I can buy this firearm legally, from a Canadian dealer and bulletin 72 confirms the pistol mag is legal, how could the Crown possibly proceed with "charges?"

Being fairly new to the firearms world I find it rediculous that this can happen. Are things really this bad for the gun owner?

If the answer is yes, then 1) where do I get this insurance and 2) which organization do I join to fight this kind of Horse $hit!
Click to expand...

ccfr membership and take the legal advice and legal insurance
 
If you shoot 9mm you can use 10 round 40S&W mags and get 13 rounds 9mm in it legally. Feeding may or may not work. It worked in my sub2k with factory glock mags.
 
And so the tornado of political horse Cacca starts ..... I too wanna get a kel-etc or tnw ... but don't wanna get harassed by police and conservation office ....... them bugging you about a pistol mag with 10 rounds in it
 
4b1t said:
Welcome to the black/green world.

Good news: The Liberal government is about to pass legislation/regulations making the mag limit issue VERY clear.

Bad news: Depending upon your viewpoint, you won't like the clarification.
Click to expand...

Wow! You work for the justice minister? Unless you produce something to support this, you don't know jack. Please stop feeding the rumor mill.

You know, I was told by some folks that my two AR15's were going to be prohibited with upcoming legislation and I would lose my rifles to the new legislation. So I sold them before losing my money invested. That was in 1991. Lesson learned.

Moe
 
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4b1t said:
Welcome to the black/green world.

Good news: The Liberal government is about to pass legislation/regulations making the mag limit issue VERY clear.

Bad news: Depending upon your viewpoint, you won't like the clarification.
Click to expand...

I also believe that this year there is going to be some pretty black and white laws coming out regarding magazines. The ruger fiasco was just the start
 
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