375 H&H cast boolit load data & Swaging projectiles from brass cases

notsorichguy

notsorichguy

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Full disclosure..... This is defiantly a first world problem....

I recently aquired my first big bore hunting rifle. A 375 H&H. I knew projectiles would be expensive, but $4/piece is a bit extreme IMHO..... Yes there are cheaper options, but not in the 300gr+ weights I would like....

I have contacted boomers moulds, a very nice fella, he's local to me so I've visited his shop and I am in the process of having a mould made to cast my own "practice" pills. But that really isn't an option in my mind for a reliable hunting round (unless we are talking about gophers). Right now I'm thinking a 10-12gr charge of unique, a paper wad, cream of wheat filler then seat the cast projectile. I can't seem to find any data in my manuals for cast boolits in a 375 H&H.....

Next, I was thinking that I may just swage bullets from annealed brass cases. It can be done using .223 or 9mm cases. There is a bit of info on the inter-webs and Corbin makes dies (a 6 die set) to do so..... But at $1500 USD plus the cost of a press, it seems a bit too spendy for me to go that way. $2100 Canadian buys a butt-load of projectiles! Probably more than I would shoot in my lifetime!

And that brings me to the question I'm currently chewing on......

What if: I took 100 1xf Nork 223 brass cases (I have 6-7000 of these in the garage) turned the rim off the cases on the lathe, ran the cases through the ultrasonic cleaner to remove any and all dirt and debris, fully annealed the cases (top to bottom) so they are nice and soft. Next up is manufacturing a Swaging base for the rock chucker to swage the base of the projectile (again some more lathe work), turn a 223 re-sizing die to the correct internal diameter to size the exterior of the brass case to the desired diameter, rework a 223 seating die to make a spitter point. I imagine that the process would look like this;

1- turn off base of 223 case to form a "boat tail"
2- trim case to desired length (to be determined)
3- anneal cases
4- fully clean and de-grease cases
5- pour molten lead into the case
6- press boat tail end into forming die
7- push unfinished projectile through body die
8- form spritzer point in last die

Thoughts?
 
Re #5: I would use a cast bullet, rather than pouring in molten lead. You would get a more consistent weight, and wouldn't have to worry about variable bleed off of lead.
Back in the seventies, I played around with swaging bullets, and actually cracked a Corbin die. You are using lots of pressure.
I think it's possible, with powder coating, to get the same performance with a cast bullet as you could with a jacketed bullet, in some cartridges.
 
You can do an awful lot better than that with cast bullets. My old Lyman cast bullet manual lists loads up to 265gr with 4759, 4198, 3031, 4064, 4320, and 4831 with STARTING loads of +\- 1900fps. f you want to push the cast bullet velocity window, you should contact Lead Bullet Technology, that's a specialty of theirs. They also make bullet molds.
Grouch
 
slug said:
Re #5: I would use a cast bullet, rather than pouring in molten lead. You would get a more consistent weight, and wouldn't have to worry about variable bleed off of lead.
Back in the seventies, I played around with swaging bullets, and actually cracked a Corbin die. You are using lots of pressure.
I think it's possible, with powder coating, to get the same performance with a cast bullet as you could with a jacketed bullet, in some cartridges.
Click to expand...

I was trying to do a partial swage so I don't have to purchase a bigger/tougher press..... the cost of an additional hydraulic or Arbor press (as well as the shop space required) are not places I really want to go right now!

Your comments have been added to the "bank". What comes out in the other end is still a mystery at this point!

If the only way to make this little pet project work is to go all the way down the rabbit hole, I can't see myself going forward!

Cheers!
 
grouch said:
You can do an awful lot better than that with cast bullets. My old Lyman cast bullet manual lists loads up to 265gr with 4759, 4198, 3031, 4064, 4320, and 4831 with STARTING loads of +\- 1900fps. f you want to push the cast bullet velocity window, you should contact Lead Bullet Technology, that's a specialty of theirs. They also make bullet molds.
Grouch
Click to expand...

I don't think I can realistically push the kind of lead I have past 1600. I have several hundred pounds of range lead that I stiffen up with a very very limited supply of Linotype. BN usually comes out at 10/11 for the range lead, with the Lino I can stiffen it to 15/16. That said, I have 4198, 3031 & 4831 on hand. So the info is appreciated!
 
With all the work you're putting into your reclaimed cases, you might be just as far ahead to paperpatch...Although a lot of guys are bypassing that step and going straight to powdercoating. Both techniques work, but I don't know if you're looking for plinking bullets, or for full house hunting loads.

You can get away with soft lead with either process, and run your speeds up to full house with both paperpatch and the powdercoat (so I've heard) and don't need to run superhard lead to do it, either.

Your trimming each and every brass case in a lathe is going to be very time consuming and might not get the accuracy results you want. Personally, I would leave the bases as they area and treat them like a flat base bullet. Less work and the accuracy will probably be better. It will be very difficult to get each and every base exactly the same as the last.

Have you checked out the swaging section over on Castboolits? With a clean supply of 223 cases you would be ready for a elephant zombie appocolypse with all the ammo you could assemble form them.

Some of the pics over there show the rim still visible on a projectile and it sounds like some of the guys are getting pretty good accuracy from them, too. I don't know how big or heavy a press you have, but it sounds like you can get away with a Rockchucker and swage down a bunch of brass for the use you need. And, the lead you use in these homemade softpoints doesn't need to be overly hard, so you have most of the stuff you need, including a lathe to make your own swaging dies.

I hope I'm not too much of an enabler here. I paperpatch and haven't needed to powdercoat or swage anything. Yet.
 
Lionel said:
With all the work you're putting into your reclaimed cases, you might be just as far ahead to paperpatch...Although a lot of guys are bypassing that step and going straight to powdercoating. Both techniques work, but I don't know if you're looking for plinking bullets, or for full house hunting loads.

You can get away with soft lead with either process, and run your speeds up to full house with both paperpatch and the powdercoat (so I've heard) and don't need to run superhard lead to do it, either.

Your trimming each and every brass case in a lathe is going to be very time consuming and might not get the accuracy results you want. Personally, I would leave the bases as they area and treat them like a flat base bullet. Less work and the accuracy will probably be better. It will be very difficult to get each and every base exactly the same as the last.

Have you checked out the swaging section over on Castboolits? With a clean supply of 223 cases you would be ready for a elephant zombie appocolypse with all the ammo you could assemble form them.

Some of the pics over there show the rim still visible on a projectile and it sounds like some of the guys are getting pretty good accuracy from them, too. I don't know how big or heavy a press you have, but it sounds like you can get away with a Rockchucker and swage down a bunch of brass for the use you need. And, the lead you use in these homemade softpoints doesn't need to be overly hard, so you have most of the stuff you need, including a lathe to make your own swaging dies.

I hope I'm not too much of an enabler here. I paperpatch and haven't needed to powdercoat or swage anything. Yet.
Click to expand...

Boy oh boy! That's a bit to chew on.... I have no exp paper patching, so it's not something I considered!

For the most part, I'm looking for economical plinking projectiles. If those economical pills turn into really good performing hunting bullets, so much the better!

OTOH I can afford to purchase good bullets for hunting.....

I have access to a, pretty much, unlimited supply of lead. Being one of the "volunteers" who cleans out the bullet trap(s) at 2 different ranges, I usually get 1st dibs on the range lead. I try not to be greedy and take no more than 10% of the lead. I already have a pretty decent stock-pile....

It's funny, but both clubs leave the lead in 5 gal buckets for members to take home. They usually sit there for 4-6 weeks until the club loads it up and takes it into a scrap dealer. The funds go back into the ranges coffers. A decade ago, it wouldn't last a week!
 
It took me almost an hour to make my first paper patched bullet. Now that my fingers know what to do, I can knock off 200 in an evening.

Having a lathe would be a great asset with making a custom core mould, core sizing die and final sizing die for your bullets.

A few years back, I shot an elk with a range lead, paper patched bullet out of a much smaller caliber. (303B) Having lots of inexpensive ammo to practice with is a huge benefit when it time to take your hunting shot.

Yes, and I gathered most of my starting information from Castboolits.

Making swaged bullets would be fun to do, but there will be a lot of lathe work and trial and error. If you have lots of time and some tool and material cash, it might still be fun, longer term project. I have swaged 44 Mag bullets from 40 s&w casings using adapted reloading dies. I stopped as it was beating up my dies and press and I could just as easily cast different weights for the .44 and gas check and get similar results.

Have fun!
John
 
notsorichguy said:
I've been thinking about doing exactly that..... how bad could it possibly be?
Click to expand...

Not bad at all, powder coating will take about 10% of the time it takes to cast your boolits. Cost-wise $40 worth of powder (will do many thousands of boolits) and a surplus used toaster oven (mine was $15) and your in business. The last couple of years there has been a sh!t load of testing done with PC rifle boolits and the hardness you are getting with your melt can be used almost as fast as jacketed bullets (11-12 easily up to 2200 fps, 16 up to 3000 fps).

I don't know how far out or what game you plan on using your .375 in a hunting situation but I would feel comfortable using the same PC'd boolit for plinking & most any NA game out to 3-400 yrds.
 
I must admit that the 1957+/_ cast bullet manual has a tendency toward optimism, but 38-55 used to achieve over 1600fps with alloys that weren't all that hard. You have a mold coming and it would be a shame not to try it. I'd be really interested in your results!
Grouch
 
Leo thinks that I should be able to push bn 11-12 lead projectiles to 1600.

I have decided against paper patching in favour of powder coating.... But only if I can't push the projectiles to decent velocity (1400+) with-out signs of leading.

I think I'm going to shelve the swaging idea until I see how the cast work out.

I will report back once I have the mould and cast a few slugs.

Thanks for all the insight!

Cheers!
 
Heres an update for you fellas.

I picked up the mould from leo last week. It was ready a couple weeks ago, but I was pretty busy with work etc. (and its silly season). Leo cast a couple boolits with the mould. Avg weight is 279gr.

I haven't cast a single pill, yet. it's on the to-do list!

Here's a pic to keep y'all interested!

 
375 is a pussy cat with cast bullets, find load data for H4895 and a jacketed bullet, take 60% of the max load and use that as a starting load for your cast bullet, I prefer gas checked bullets and have no problems getting them to 2200 fps with no leading and decent accuracy, the lube you use for your bullets has more to do with leading then the hardness of the lead itself.
Size your bullets at .377 or .378 if the throat of the rifle will allow for it and load them up and have some fun
 
Im sure you have contacted him already but it may be worth your while to inquire with the gentleman who convinced you to buy this gun about his cast gopher bullets in the 500/416. If i recal correctly he has them ripping along at 2100 fps with no leading whatsoever.
 
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