First AR, Norc CQA. Do I need commercial or mil-spec furniture?

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Hey all.

I just got my Norc AR this weekend and put a hundred rounds through it at 10, 25, and 50yds. It's a fun little rifle, and shoots nice, but I definitely want to get some Magpul furniture for it.

I've read about the differences between the comm. and milspec buffer tubes, so I'm not sure which to order for this gun.

My vern caliper got thief'd by someone who borrowed it from me, so I wasn't able to measure it. I figured I'd ask here in case anyone knows that Norcs come with one or the other.

Otherwise I guess I will have to buy a new caliper set. (Couldn't hurt).

Cheers.

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Yup, commercial buffer tube. Don't be surprised if you have to file and hand fit some of the bits. Keep in mind what it is: an economic and functional rifle! Have fun!
 
Mil-spec- end of buffer tube is flat (90 deg)

Commercial- slanted end of buffer tube.

That used to be the case a long time ago. It is no longer correct. Some commercial buffer tubes are flat.

If the threads are cut into the tube and are the same diameter as the rest of the tube and slightly flattened, it is a commercial buffer tube.

If the threads appear to have a greater diameter than the rest of the tube, it is mil-spec buffer tube.

The commercial buffer tubes (proper name is lower receiver extension) are thicker, as they are made from extruded 6061, while mil-spec should be forged 7075 (although some are extruded 7075).

Regards.

Mark
 
Mil-spec- end of buffer tube is flat (90 deg)

Commercial- slanted end of buffer tube.
That wasn't even the case a long time ago. I have a flat commercial spec on my Armalite that I bought used in 2002. The commercial spec diameter pre dates the M4 stock by decades.

After most manufacturers made the switch to M4 style stocks a lot went to the slanted tube but just being flat on the back does not mean it's mil diameter.
 
That wasn't even the case a long time ago. I have a flat commercial spec on my Armalite that I bought used in 2002. The commercial spec diameter pre dates the M4 stock by decades.

After most manufacturers made the switch to M4 style stocks a lot went to the slanted tube but just being flat on the back does not mean it's mil diameter.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Care to expand?

Regards.

Mark
 
Every Norc I've encountered is commercial spec on the tube.

However, virtually every other part you might wish to upgrade will be a crapshoot. Any mods I've done or seen done, almost always require a file, a dremel or a hammer. I enjoy my Norc - decent rifle for the price...you never have to feel bad about mistreating it and mine has never let me down...but upgrading it will be a testament to your patience.
 
Every Norc I've encountered is commercial spec on the tube.

However, virtually every other part you might wish to upgrade will be a crapshoot. Any mods I've done or seen done, almost always require a file, a dremel or a hammer. I enjoy my Norc - decent rifle for the price...you never have to feel bad about mistreating it and mine has never let me down...but upgrading it will be a testament to your patience.

Interesting, well I don't mind doing a little bit of kitchen table gunsmithing, I went through the same thing when fitting a new stock on my Norc M305.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Care to expand?

Regards.

Mark

What I mean is the stock currently known as the M4 stock didn't exist until 2002 according to one source I found (that seems later than I remember though). So up until that point all stocks, be they commercial or mil spec had flat backs because all the collapsible stocks up to that point were flat, not angled. Commercial stocks have been made since at least the 80s.
 
What I mean is the stock currently known as the M4 stock didn't exist until 2002 according to one source I found (that seems later than I remember though). So up until that point all stocks, be they commercial or mil spec had flat backs because all the collapsible stocks up to that point were flat, not angled. Commercial stocks have been made since at least the 80s.

Okay, I finally found some time to answer this.

The current M4 stock is fairly recent, but collapsible stocks on guns like the XM177 existed in the 1960's. They were originally all based on what are now called the Mil-Spec dimensions, as were the original lower receiver extensions (hereafter called tubes).

The Commercial dimension tubes (and stocks) appeared some years later, as a result of manufacturers attempting to save a few $ on guns built specifically for the civilian market. The tubes are thicker, because the extruded 6061 aluminium that they are made from, is weaker than the original spec, which called for forged 7075 aluminium.

There may well have been some flat ended Commercial spec tubes made originally, but most of the ones that have been made, have slanted ends, to the point where almost every stock manufacturer put out a photograph or diagram similar to the one posted above, and the slanted v straight end became the go to difference to look for when calipers are not available. I have never seen it written anywhere, that the reason for slanted ends on Commercial tubes was specifically due to the slanted butt plate of the M4 stock, especially given that it was originally designed for military use, and in Mil-Spec diameter.

Recently, more Commercial tubes have appeared with flat ends, so the old standby of slanted v straight no longer applies. Additionally, some manufacturers are putting out tubes made from extruded rather than forged 7075. These are Mil-Spec diameter, but are not the same as Mil-Spec.

What difference does it make? For civilian users, probably most will never notice, unless they have to mortar the gun to remove a stuck cartridge/case. However, manufacturers who skimp on the tube, have a tendency to be a bit fast and loose with other parts as well.

If you want to be sure, then measure the diameter. If you don't have any means of measuring, then look at the threads.

I don't have time right now to dig through our library of two dozen plus books and manuals on the AR15/M16/M4 FOW for exact dates, but that is the general story as I understand it. If you have access some written material regarding the origins for the slant, I would be interested to read it.

Regards.

Mark
 
Try putting a commercial CAR style stock on a commercial tube with slanted end. The tube sticks out past the stock. Slanted tubes have only been around for the last 15 years or so. Put on on m4 style and you'll see that it sits flush with the tube and the angle on the stock and the tube is the same.
 
Every Norc I've encountered is commercial spec on the tube.

However, virtually every other part you might wish to upgrade will be a crapshoot. Any mods I've done or seen done, almost always require a file, a dremel or a hammer. I enjoy my Norc - decent rifle for the price...you never have to feel bad about mistreating it and mine has never let me down...but upgrading it will be a testament to your patience.

All the magpul furniture fit nicely except the handguard, which required a bit of filing to remove some material because it was too tight.
 
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