Long Branch parts variant, Need help!

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tpipower

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Hi guys.

I recently purshased a 1944 Long branch and it come with a zamac butt plate and a milled middle band. I actualy own 2 1944 with this setup but I always though those part dissapear in middle 1943 with the war concession and been replaced with stamped band and steel butt plate. I read skennerton book and he said the date when the change has been approved appear to be in middle 1943 too. Do you have any reference to determinate what is the correct variant for the 1944 Long Branch?

I have also noticed a screwless sight base on one of my long Branch. Do you have an idea of when this variant appear!?

Many thanks again!
Look the difference beetween the LB32 and LB33 butt stock pistol grip size!





 
Last edited:
Good catch, I don't recall seeing a front sight block without the lock screw.

Now I will have to search for an example.

I've seen a number of 1944 LB rifles with zamac butt plates, including sniping rifles, so I wouldn't worry about it.

The same comment Re the mid band.

The MkIII rear sight began fitting to new production rifles approx January-May 1944 and the order to begin refitting existing rifles in ETO was given in June 1944.
 
plinker 777 said:
A savage Barrel and sight shipped to LB perhaps? Was there not a period where parts were mixed back and forth between the factories?
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No there was not.

This is a myth perpetuated by people who read that remaining parts were shipped to Long Branch when Savage ended production of the No4 rifle.

From watching eBay, it appears that the Savage spares were shipped directly to the UK and placed into stores. Take a look at the Savage rear sights and butt stocks for sale right now, in the last year easily more Savage MkI rear sights have been sold on eBay than were fitted to Long Branch sniping rifles.
 
I have no idea if it a myth but I opened some new box of NOS canadian butt plate in the grease and some were assembled with savage marked trap spring!



Lee Enfield said:
No there was not.

This is a myth perpetuated by people who read that remaining parts were shipped to Long Branch when Savage ended production of the No4 rifle.

From watching eBay, it appears that the Savage spares were shipped directly to the UK and placed into stores. Take a look at the Savage rear sights and butt stocks for sale right now, in the last year easily more Savage MkI rear sights have been sold on eBay than were fitted to Long Branch sniping rifles.
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tpipower said:
I have no idea if it a myth but I opened some new box of NOS canadian butt plate in the grease and some were assembled with savage marked trap spring!
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I should have made it clearer:

There was no exchange of parts/componants between Savage (Chicopee Falls) and Long Branch (Toronto). The distances and transport system of the day rule it out.

There is reported to have been 1x shipment (to Long Branch).

The vast majority of Savage parts found on Long Branch rifles are actually reused salvaged parts from Savage rifles being rebuilt (in the Canadian system). Part of the confusion is that post war rebuilds are not marked as "FTR" as done in the Commonwealth system.
 
Lee Enfield said:
I should have made it clearer:

There was no exchange of parts/componants between Savage (Chicopee Falls) and Long Branch (Toronto). The distances and transport system of the day rule it out.

There is reported to have been 1x shipment (to Long Branch).

The vast majority of Savage parts found on Long Branch rifles are actually reused salvaged parts from Savage rifles being rebuilt (in the Canadian system). Part of the confusion is that post war rebuilds are not marked as "FTR" as done in the Commonwealth system.
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It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just trying to understand. Are you suggesting that logistically it made more sense to run small arms parts across the Uboat gauntlet to England rather than across Lake Ontario from NY State to Toronto?
 
plinker 777 said:
It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just trying to understand. Are you suggesting that logistically it made more sense to run small arms parts across the Uboat gauntlet to England rather than across Lake Ontario from NY State to Toronto?
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Yes,

One has to understand that during the war, ALL materials procurement & even transport was carefully organized and controlled. All materials procurement and shipments and shipping "priority" had to be approved.

For instance, Winchester could not get the (Springfield Armoury & US Ordnance Department) specified materials to build the M1 Garand and without (ordinance department) permission used similar (steel) materials (which they had in stock for commercial gun production) to manufacture the M1 Garand and its component parts. This was part of the reason that the Winchester Garand production was delayed, Winchester could not source specified material - some say that it was a conspiracy by the Ord dept and Springfield, who didn't want Garand production to leave gov't monopoly.

Also, Chicopee Massachusetts is not "just across Lake Ontario", it is aprox. 750KM by rail and aprox 650 to 700km "as the crow flies" from Long Branch.
 
Lee Enfield said:
Yes,

One has to understand that during the war, ALL materials procurement & even transport was carefully organized and controlled. All materials procurement and shipments and shipping "priority" had to be approved.

For instance, Winchester could not get the (Springfield Armoury & US Ordnance Department) specified materials to build the M1 Garand and without (ordinance department) permission used similar (steel) materials (which they had in stock for commercial gun production) to manufacture the M1 Garand and its component parts. This was part of the reason that the Winchester Garand production was delayed, Winchester could not source specified material - some say that it was a conspiracy by the Ord dept and Springfield, who didn't want Garand production to leave gov't monopoly.

Also, Chicopee Massachusetts is not "just across Lake Ontario", it is aprox. 750KM by rail and aprox 650 to 700km "as the crow flies" from Long Branch.
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...I believe it has more to do with typical red tape and bureaucracy than anything. The Savages were 'Lend Lease' guns to Britain. Canada, although a "Commonwealth" country is not Britain, therefore the guns and parts were contractually bound for over seas. Having said that, I believe there is evidence that some resourceful folks managed to cut the red tape as Savage parts do find themselves on LB guns to a small degree (The trap door spring on the LB being Savage marked is a good example.).
 
plinker 777 said:
...I believe it has more to do with typical red tape and bureaucracy than anything. The Savages were 'Lend Lease' guns to Britain. Canada, although a "Commonwealth" country is not Britain, therefore the guns and parts were contractually bound for over seas. Having said that, I believe there is evidence that some resourceful folks managed to cut the red tape as Savage parts do find themselves on LB guns to a small degree (The trap door spring on the LB being Savage marked is a good example.).
Click to expand...
There was most definately a shipment of some parts to Long Branch, definitely MkI rear sights start being used on snipers in 1945.

The interesting thing is that they start being used on British snipers converted at H&H at around the same time.

My objection is to the idea that they "shared" parts, there is no evidence of this, however there is limited evidence that some parts were shipped to (both) England and LB, corresponding with close out of Savage production.

Recent surplus demonstrates that large quantities manufactured (per the packaging labels) as spare parts were shipped to the UK.
 
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