Real WW2 M97 Trench gun?

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Maxi5566

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Montreal, Quebec
Hello everyone,

Even with a book I bought about WW2 trenchguns, 'I can't find the answer to my question. My question is the following: is it possible that a real WW2 M97 has a serial number D930 6xx? Or do all the ww2 trench guns have a "E" prefix? The guy that advertises his M97 says it is from 1941-42 (see the link below).




http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/winchester-shotguns-model-97/winchester-1897-wwii-quot-trenchgun-quot-1942-quot-all-correct.cfm?gun_id=100773404

Thanks
 
only E on trench guns. also should be 100% matching numbers.

this from combat shotguns book. if you have the exact number i can give you an idea if it has been documented. they have a few serials in the 9306xx range
 
i checked the book and. it has documented 930636 as a USMC gun. it does not list a prefix but it says all of them are E. is the seller sure its not just a hard to read e?
one other thing it says the hand guard should be blued. not park.
 
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At $3800 USD, I'd caution you against importing this particular piece. With importation fees and currency conversion incorporated into the mix, you're currently looking at around $5750 CAD shipped to your door. If it were an original untouched example, that would be a very fair price, but unfortunately this shotgun seems to have a few noticeable issues.

Beyond the potential discrepancy with the serial number, I can tell you that the stock should be WB (Waldemar S. Broberg) cartouched . The rack numbers are likely post war applied and the butt plate is incorrect. An original Winchester butt plate on a shotgun of this vintage would simply be the plastic civilian type. Those steel butt plates were applied during refurbishment programs in the 1950s and 1960s. They were also popular among civilian police forces once the shotguns had been sold off as surplus to the civilian market. Another issue I *think* I see is a W marked bayonet adapter. These show up on the late production parkerized Model 12 trench guns, but not on Model 1897s of this vintage.

I wish I could comment on the finish, but the photos provided by the seller are not good enough to make a definitive call. That said, with the other issues in mind, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that this is likely a post-war arsenal rebuilt example. Certainly not one you should import.

- Chris
 
US Winchester Trench and Riot Guns, Joe Poyer, 2nd edition, page 12 indicates that ALL M97 Trench & Riot Guns purchased by the Ordnance Dept will have an "E" stamped above the serial number. As does the one I currently have for sale that you and I have been discussing.
 
Maxi5566 said:
Thanks a lot guy. I have another question regarding the magazine tube: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=259911
On this page, it says that "WW2 Model 97 trench guns have the xtra hole in the magazine tube for the takedown lever." In Poyer's book, it says M97 trench gun only has 2 holes in either side of the magazine tube.

So who is right? Can a real M97 trench gun have 3 holes or no?
Click to expand...

I believe you're confusing a bonefide trench gun(Military), with a riot gun (Police). I also believe that you have politely been pointed in that direction prior. (I also think you're window shopping rather than buying, but I digress.)
 
I have no idea what you are talking about. I know the difference between a "real" trenchgun and a "real" riot gun. My problem is that there are informations on the web that differs from what I read from Poyer's book.

plinker 777 said:
I believe you're confusing a bonefide trench gun(Military), with a riot gun (Police). I also believe that you have politely been pointed in that direction prior. (I also think you're window shopping rather than buying, but I digress.)
Click to expand...
 
There is a few things going on with that TG, I can't comment on the finish as the pics are not good enough for a concise conclusion. A gun with a serial earlier 750,000 will have a high comb stock, and for sure over 915,000 will have a low comb. Yours clearly is a low comb. The lowest recorded serial with a GHD inspection stamp is 926,140. The seller offers his phone number for any questions. Give hime a shout. My guess is that with the steel but plate it's a trench/riot gun rebuilt for prison use. Or a pieced together piece, more info is needed.

Here's detailed pics of a textbook m1897 with no issues.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1476385-Model-1897-trench-gun?highlight=M1897

And another
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/723939-WWII-U-S-Winchester-M97-Trench-Gun
 
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