Questioning an old truth

Papaclaude

Papaclaude

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OK, this week, while I'm out hunting, I was pondering some old hunting "truths". One that I really have to question is that moose, deer, etc., always walk into the wind. Kinda makes sense - they can smell anyone trying to sneak up on them. But - if that were the case, given the fact that predominant winds in Canada are from the NW the vast majority of the time (at least in the fall), wouldn't all game animals end up on the NorthWest cost of BC or Alaska by some time in November?

Can you think of some other "truths" you question?
 
PMSL!

ive often thought the same thing, funny as though.

Its like the 3 steps forward One backward deal..... theres enough days with swirly winds an the different than usual direction to keep them scattered around haha
 
Papaclaude said:
OK, this week, while I'm out hunting, I was pondering some old hunting "truths". One that I really have to question is that moose, deer, etc., always walk into the wind. Kinda makes sense - they can smell anyone trying to sneak up on them. But - if that were the case, given the fact that predominant winds in Canada are from the NW the vast majority of the time (at least in the fall), wouldn't all game animals end up on the NorthWest cost of BC or Alaska by some time in November?

Can you think of some other "truths" you question?
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Not sure if I buy that. I hunt with my face to the wind and have seen and had animals come up to me wind up their arse. Besides, if they were smelling what's sneakin up on them, wouldn't they want to smell behind them where they can't see??
 
j_06 said:
Not sure if I buy that. I hunt with my face to the wind and have seen and had animals come up to me wind up their arse. Besides, if they were smelling what's sneakin up on them, wouldn't they want to smell behind them where they can't see??
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Same here. I think it's one of those things people just don't give much thought to, and accept as God-given fact - like round or blunt bullets being better in brush. There! Another one! Even though tons of tests have shown basically no difference between the 3.
 
Game definitely play the wind when travelling, but obviously they cannot always have the wind directly into their noses... when scenting conditions are not favourable for them, you can expect them to take often circuitous routes, usually through thicker cover and always with their senses on high alert. You can see the unease of big game animals when the wind is not favourable.

As an example, the area I deer hunt, I have scouted and hunted for three decades... I can tell you based on wind direction where the deer are likely to feed and bed and the paths they are likely to take between the two... on one food plot, when there is a westerly (ish) wind, the deer enter directly from the thick timber at the east end, but when there is an easterly (ish) wind, the deer slink through the thickets on either side and pop out on the west end of the plot... clearly distinctly different behaviour and travel routes and predictable based on the wind direction.

Further, not taking wind direction into consideration when hunting big game animals is akin to tying a "cow-bell" around your neck, in the handicap that you are adopting.
 
Deer are just like us. They have good days, and bad days; they get distracted; they procrastinate; they get silly at times; they get obsessed with ### (when they can) and become as dumb as adolescents; they can be lazy; some are carefull while others take chances; they learn; they forget; so there is no such thing as an absolute "truth" about how deer behave or how they will react to anything.

But, when they are paying attention and using all their senses while doing whatever they are doing at the time, they are amazingly astute and it becomes very hard to remain invisible to them.
 
I watched a buck blatantly walking with the wind accross a field into another grass swale. I call BS. Maybe the rut makes them do anything tho...
 
I see deer quite often lying down on the down wind side of a bush and watching what comes at them into the wind , when the bloods not rushing to their dicks it's hard to outsmart a smart old buck . Now moose are different , they either don't care or are not as smart and I'm sure their eyesight is not as good
 
Keithjohn said:
I see deer quite often lying down on the down wind side of a bush and watching what comes at them into the wind , when the bloods not rushing to their dicks it's hard to outsmart a smart old buck . Now moose are different , they either don't care or are not as smart and I'm sure their eyesight is not as good
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Yeah, moose aren't nearly as stressed out as deer. And also a heckuva lot easier to drop. Shoot a moose and they saunter away, lay down and turn into steaks. Shoot a deer and they hightail it as far as they can, until everything shuts down. I guess it's because moose don't really have that many natural enemies. AN I do agree, old bucks are darned hard to outsmart. it's just that a lot of guys blindly view the adage as the Gospel truth.
 
after more than 40 years of hunting, I can say with reasonable authority that the statement needs modification.
Deer TEND to run into the wind, they will run crosswind at any time, and down wind for short distances. On those days when winds are light and variable, all bets are off.
If you hunt an area were there are hills that cause the winds to swirl about, then the deer will tend to follow their nose, but they also use their knowledge of the area to make an escape.
If they want to go to an apple orchard, and they have to go out in the open or down wind to do so quickly, they will weigh the odds of going down wind, versus going the circle route to get upwind or finding a route under cover.
 
Well, the wind doesn't always blow with the wind. Maybe on flat land but if you're in hilly country the wind can blow from all points on the compass in a 5 minute span unless you're on top of a hill. When you're down in a valley the wind will tend to follow the prevailing wind when it's blowing lightly but when a big gust comes it gets deflected off the hills and can turn 180 degrees in a few seconds. Get a vortex going and it's switching around all over the place. If game animals had to move into the wind they'd be staggering around like drunks.
 
Wow! this is probably the only time I've seen concensus on CGN, and no attacks!!!! I'm also glad I'm not the only one that noticed those things. Some of the older guys I've hunted with seemed to thnk this fact was etched along with the 10 Commandments on stone tablets.

Crap! I just realized I'm one of those old guys now.
 
During the early bow season, which ran from Oct 1st until Nov 6th in my piece of Ontario I spent a good number of days in the stand (14 according to my journal). There was a healthy population of does (and of course I only have a buck tag) so I took the opportunity to try and dispel some of the very myth's that have been "handed down" particularly to deer hunters.

Some days it was windy and we all know deer "bed down" when it's windy, right? Well at anything up to and including 25 kms they were still very active - didn't stop them from coming in to munch on feed corn and apples.

And yes, as this thread has indicated so far, the "wind direction" had no discernible influence as to what direction they came in from. I get "predominately" westerly winds and it was about a 50/50 toss up as to whether they would come from the east (so wind in their face) compared to from the north or west.

Next, since they (the does) would often come in and "chow down" for 45 minutes to an hour at a time - and NOT just at last light - they would wander in three to four "hours" before sunset, I decided to see "how much noise I could make" without 1) alerting them and 2) scaring them off. Since this (for me) is "bow range" they ranged from between 6 and 17 yards from my stand (base of the stand is 10 feet off the ground).

I tried all the "typical" sounds that may come from a hunter - zipped/unzipped zippers - nothing - didn't even perk their ears. Opened a thermos and rattled both the cup top and the stopper - nothing. Rubbed the arm of my coat on the bark of the tree causing that (bristling) sound - they stopped eating, their ears started doing that swivel - stood still and listened for a good 20 or 30 seconds and then settled back down. A couple times my hunting buddy called on the walkie - that also "alerted" them, but didn't spook them off. I also dropped various items on the floor of my stand, stomped the floor a couple times, tried knocking - couldn't get them to leave.

Two sounds that sent them packing - discharging a spray can of scent - so that "hissing" sound - saw tails up and off they went - also another "hissing" noise sent them packing - was frigging around with the walkie and it blasted out some static - nothing but "white tails" going in every direction at high speed.

Even had one evening where I had two deer in feeding - one directly in front of me (15 yards) and one immediately to the right of me at 12 yards - both totally relaxed, both eating. A raccoon wandered in and started eating beside the one in front of me - only having about 10 minutes of shooting light left I promptly "popped" the raccoon with my crossbow (legal with my small game licence) - anyhow, the doe adjacent to it decided to "go elsewhere" but not at super high speed and the one to my left, again 12 yards from where "I fired the crossbow" didn't even look up from what she was eating.

A couple other things that didn't spook the deer was gunshots. During the early bow duck/goose is open. On at least half a dozen days that I was there guys were popping off dozens of rounds with their shotguns within 300-400 yards from where I am set up - shotgun shots don't even warrant a "look up" - likewise, in the week before the gun guys were "sighting in" about 800 yards south of me - and again, the shots resulted in "no response".

The one that really got their interest was a chainsaw - a tree had blown over our access road and a couple of guys went at it for about an hour one afternoon. The blowdown was about 150 yards from my set-up. The deer stopped and looked in the direction of the noise - they stood perfectly still staring in the direction for fully 20 minutes. Then they advanced about 50 yards towards the noise and simply "laid down" facing the direction of the noise. They stayed bedded until 15 or 20 minutes after the noise stopped and then came back to feed.

And the last myth I dispelled (at least to my satisfaction). Every time they were in I lit up a smoke and blew in their direction - with the wind coming "predominantly" from behind me, it was going in their direction - zip, nothing, nada - not a look, not a sniff, nothing.

Now all this was "pre-gun hunt" - I will continue trying these (tests) if they bother to show up in the late bow, which opens tomorrow. They may be more "skittish" since they have been enduring gun hunters running around the woods for the past couple weeks...
 
Cool Test , you should almost make this a thread of its own, especially when you return with further testing in the field during hunting rifle season.

im interested in your findings..

WL
 
galamb said:
During the early bow season, which ran from Oct 1st until Nov 6th in my piece of Ontario I spent a good number of days in the stand (14 according to my journal). There was a healthy population of does (and of course I only have a buck tag) so I took the opportunity to try and dispel some of the very myth's that have been "handed down" particularly to deer hunters.

Some days it was windy and we all know deer "bed down" when it's windy, right? Well at anything up to and including 25 kms they were still very active - didn't stop them from coming in to munch on feed corn and apples.

And yes, as this thread has indicated so far, the "wind direction" had no discernible influence as to what direction they came in from. I get "predominately" westerly winds and it was about a 50/50 toss up as to whether they would come from the east (so wind in their face) compared to from the north or west.

Next, since they (the does) would often come in and "chow down" for 45 minutes to an hour at a time - and NOT just at last light - they would wander in three to four "hours" before sunset, I decided to see "how much noise I could make" without 1) alerting them and 2) scaring them off. Since this (for me) is "bow range" they ranged from between 6 and 17 yards from my stand (base of the stand is 10 feet off the ground).

I tried all the "typical" sounds that may come from a hunter - zipped/unzipped zippers - nothing - didn't even perk their ears. Opened a thermos and rattled both the cup top and the stopper - nothing. Rubbed the arm of my coat on the bark of the tree causing that (bristling) sound - they stopped eating, their ears started doing that swivel - stood still and listened for a good 20 or 30 seconds and then settled back down. A couple times my hunting buddy called on the walkie - that also "alerted" them, but didn't spook them off. I also dropped various items on the floor of my stand, stomped the floor a couple times, tried knocking - couldn't get them to leave.

Two sounds that sent them packing - discharging a spray can of scent - so that "hissing" sound - saw tails up and off they went - also another "hissing" noise sent them packing - was frigging around with the walkie and it blasted out some static - nothing but "white tails" going in every direction at high speed.

Even had one evening where I had two deer in feeding - one directly in front of me (15 yards) and one immediately to the right of me at 12 yards - both totally relaxed, both eating. A raccoon wandered in and started eating beside the one in front of me - only having about 10 minutes of shooting light left I promptly "popped" the raccoon with my crossbow (legal with my small game licence) - anyhow, the doe adjacent to it decided to "go elsewhere" but not at super high speed and the one to my left, again 12 yards from where "I fired the crossbow" didn't even look up from what she was eating.

A couple other things that didn't spook the deer was gunshots. During the early bow duck/goose is open. On at least half a dozen days that I was there guys were popping off dozens of rounds with their shotguns within 300-400 yards from where I am set up - shotgun shots don't even warrant a "look up" - likewise, in the week before the gun guys were "sighting in" about 800 yards south of me - and again, the shots resulted in "no response".

The one that really got their interest was a chainsaw - a tree had blown over our access road and a couple of guys went at it for about an hour one afternoon. The blowdown was about 150 yards from my set-up. The deer stopped and looked in the direction of the noise - they stood perfectly still staring in the direction for fully 20 minutes. Then they advanced about 50 yards towards the noise and simply "laid down" facing the direction of the noise. They stayed bedded until 15 or 20 minutes after the noise stopped and then came back to feed.

And the last myth I dispelled (at least to my satisfaction). Every time they were in I lit up a smoke and blew in their direction - with the wind coming "predominantly" from behind me, it was going in their direction - zip, nothing, nada - not a look, not a sniff, nothing.

Now all this was "pre-gun hunt" - I will continue trying these (tests) if they bother to show up in the late bow, which opens tomorrow. They may be more "skittish" since they have been enduring gun hunters running around the woods for the past couple weeks...
Click to expand...

Did all that and didn't see a buck???
 
hoytcanon said:
Did all that and didn't see a buck???
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55245149.jpg
 
hoytcanon said:
Did all that and didn't see a buck???
Click to expand...

No, didn't see a buck in the early bow and I get that you are possibly insinuating that that's "why".

But there was zero evidence of buck activity "long before" I did all that. No pics, no scrapes, no rubs.

One was taken on the property in the gun (not by my group), but the does continued coming in to my stand during the gun season. There is five different groups that hunt the two week season and the one buck was all that any saw at all. They (bucks) weren't even showing up on the camera's this year in the late summer/early fall. In a typical year we often see pics of six to eight different bucks - they have been elusive this year (and by the spike in sales of crossbows and black powder guns at work, the entire area probably had a crappy deer season). Most groups that we have talked to in/around the area only got deer if they had doe tags.

The does continued to be "comfortable" regardless of the noise that I made during the gun season. They also were unaffected by the scents that I had out. I have also heard, over the years, that does "not in heat" will shy away/stay away from estrous scents. Well the entire time I was in the stand I had an estrous stick burning. Also had scent pads with estrous on them and used a scent drag in and out of the area around my stand.

I also had a remote, electronic deer call within 6 feet of the feed pile and while they were chowing down if I used it to produce a buck grunt, young buck grunt, fawn call or doe in heat "bleat" call they either took "no notice at all" or occasionally they would look up for a moment in the direction of the call - but none of the calls or estrous scents spooked them at all.

One evening during the gun there was a doe feeding right up to the point where I wanted to exit the stand. I have been careful all season to prevent them from actually spotting me. I tried all manner of noise and calls to try and push her out before I climbed down - I even took my hunting mitts and chucked them at her (falling maybe 10 feet short) - nope, she wasn't going to give up the corn. It wasn't until I was half way down the ladder that she decided some place else would be better to be.

It's a fairly large chunk of property, so if I was scaring away the bucks they weren't showing up anywhere else either - at least nowhere that hunters were present. And it was the "lack of bucks" that led me to "play the game" with the does.
 
Perhaps... but if I were you, I would not make that behaviour a regular routine... there is a reason that bucks often follow does and smaller younger bucks... they watch them intensely for their reactions to the environment and surroundings, and often from some distance away... while you are "experimenting" there is a very real possibility that you are also alerting a buck hanging back in the brush. The best policy, IMO, is to go undetected by as many creatures as possible, big game and small and birds too... cause as little disturbance to the natural landscape as you possibly can... this can only "up" your odds... JMO.
 
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