I am looking at the 212gr eld-x in 30-06, mainly because of the high BC and the idea of go big or go home. I checked my mag well tonight and it looks like at absolute max i can fit a 3.34 case length. Hornady recommends 3.4 fof thst bullet, for 60 thou extra depth would i be playing with fire? I also looked at the 200gr but like the BC from that bullet and locally i can get it.
Seating bullet deeper then COL, safe?
- Thread starter Fox
- Start date
Seat the bullet in a dummy round where it will function through your action. Then make a workup load with that OAL like the reloading manuals tell you to do.
All reloading data is ballpark information because of the different firearms and reloading components used.
I always get several manuals out and average the starting loads and work up from that. And doing this will tell you a great deal about your rifle and load when you look at each fired case.
Then when you know your rifle like the back of your hand you can reduce your loads by 10% when changing anything on your load.
Know thy rifle and beware of the man with only one gun.
All reloading data is ballpark information because of the different firearms and reloading components used.
I always get several manuals out and average the starting loads and work up from that. And doing this will tell you a great deal about your rifle and load when you look at each fired case.
Then when you know your rifle like the back of your hand you can reduce your loads by 10% when changing anything on your load.
Know thy rifle and beware of the man with only one gun.
COAL means very little. Case head to where the bullet ogive meets the rifling is important. Establish that distance in your rifle and compare to your loaded round. Mag length may or may not be your limiting factor. Often the bullet taking up space in the case and so limiting powder volume is what limits velocity with heavy bullets in 30 cal cartridges that don't have really big cases. That's why 30-06 is at a speed disadvantage vs 300WM, 308NM, 300-378Weatherby Mag etc. when shooting heavy for caliber projectiles.
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=428271
Check out this link, the guy did some detailed testing with pressure measuring equipment.
Short version: You'll be fine. Start at the starting loads and work your way up.
Check out this link, the guy did some detailed testing with pressure measuring equipment.
Short version: You'll be fine. Start at the starting loads and work your way up.
You will not be able to use quite as much powder without getting into pressure problems, but that is about it. Start your loads low and work up carefully.
Have you checked to see if your barrel has a fast enough twist to stabilize the bullet? It appears to be 1.600" long, and my guess is that you would need a 1 in 9 twist for it.
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Fresh to the game, and the only "nervous nelly" warning I can think of: The deeper in the case you seat, less volume is left in the case for powder. If two identical weight charges are set off i different volumed cases, the one crammed in the smaller volume should produce a greater pressure. If you already have a load, it would be prudent to work it up again with new seating depth.
Not super new but my concern is more around the starting load. I know that the deeper you load the higher the pressure, would 60 thou for a starting load cause problems? I will be working on a starting load and going up from there.
I have reloaded 303 Brit and 30-30 but more for plinking, never pushing the pressure limit, normally half way between starting and max is there I stopped, not even for accuracy.
I want the 212gr for the BC, I know the 30-06, I have a 6.5x55 and 30-30s and 303s, so no point putting a 150gr pill in the 30-06 when I can make a 300 WM lite. I was thinking 200gr as well as 220gr, they both load deeper based on Hornady's numbers. I also saw the Nosler 210gr that says to load to 3.34 but the Nosler is almost double the price of the Hornady and more then $1 each just for the bullet is currently prohibitive.
My gun is a 1970s Parker Hale, Mauser 98 action with a parker hale sporter barrel, it so far likes 180gr but not 150gr nearly as much, I assume the twist is more like an older 30-06 then a newer, heavier bullets rather then lighter.
You can check your twist with a cleaning rod. Put a reasonably tight fitting brush on it, and insert it just into the barrel. Put a mark on the rod at 12:00 and measure how much is sticking out of the barrel. Then push it into the barrel while letting the rod rotate. When the 12:00 mark comes around to the top for the second time, measure the amount of rod sticking out. The difference is the travel for 2 turns, so divide that in half to get your twist rate.
My rod is not turning, just slides down with a brush or a patched jag, I do not have expensive cleaning kits.
Everything I am reading on these says 1 in 10" or 1 in 12" for the 30-06 original barrel, so it should be fine with larger bullets, I know the bearing surface matters here but a 180gr round nose flat base seems to shoot well so a long boat tail 210gr or so bullet should have a similar bearing surface.
This is a long ELD (Extra Low Drag) bullet that you want to shoot. The longer it is, the faster the twist required to stabilize it. A 12 twist is almost certainly too slow. A 1 in 10 MIGHT be OK. A 1 in 9 likely will work.
A flat base bullet because it tends to be shorter can take a slower twist. A boat tail and low drag long nose bullet need the most twist.
Here is a calculator to try:
Berger Twist Rate Calculator
Here is some data on the 212 ELD-X Bullet.
From another source, this bullet is 1.600" long.
When I input this data to the calculator, a 9.5 twist is ideal. A 10 twist is probably OK. A 12 twist is totally unstable and will not work -- according to the calculator...
That is actually the calculator I was working with, I starting playing with numbers and I think my rifle has to be 1 in 10 to make any sense, based on the theory. 150gr are not liked, 180gr seem to shoot really well.
I am looking for a heavy bullet and to hold the extra energy out further, maybe the 200gr is a better idea.
If the 210gr Accubond LR was not so freaking expensive I probably would play with it a bit.
I have been digging more, seeing that I am having issues checking my rate of twist (will try your tip tomorrow), it really seems like this has to be a 1 in 10 as that is by far the standard for hunting rifles in 30/06, the slower rate or twist seems to be something newer in varmint type rifles and the 308 seems to have a 1 in 12 as they were originally designed for 147gr rather then the 220gr the 30/06 was designed for.
Berger makes it much easier to select a bullet that works, than Hornady does, or even Sierra. Have a look at the 30 cal hunting bullets in this Quick Reference Sheet.
The G7 Form Factor is the best indicator of long range trajectory and retained energy performance. Lower is better. In the 30 cal hunting bullets the lowest form factor bullet is the 180 grain Elite Hunter at 0.919 (needs 11 twist) The second best is the 185 grain VLD Hunting at 0.976 (needs a 12 twist).
See this link for a more complete explanation of using the Form Factor.
"However, form factor is a more universal indicator of a bullets efficiency and performance potential. The form factor of a bullet is essentially a measure of how efficiently a bullet flies, regardless of the bullet’s weight."
The G7 Form Factor is the best indicator of long range trajectory and retained energy performance. Lower is better. In the 30 cal hunting bullets the lowest form factor bullet is the 180 grain Elite Hunter at 0.919 (needs 11 twist) The second best is the 185 grain VLD Hunting at 0.976 (needs a 12 twist).
See this link for a more complete explanation of using the Form Factor.
"However, form factor is a more universal indicator of a bullets efficiency and performance potential. The form factor of a bullet is essentially a measure of how efficiently a bullet flies, regardless of the bullet’s weight."
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What I got from the OP, is that the post title is misleading. Really what he is talking about is loading long for his magazine. I do this for a 300 Rum. Magazine length walking ammo, and over length long range load. This is fine, the long load is simply single loaded. Loading over length for the.chamber seems to be what people are responding to, this idea is problematic.
His original post:
"I am looking at the 212gr eld-x in 30-06, mainly because of the high BC and the idea of go big or go home. I checked my mag well tonight and it looks like at absolute max i can fit a 3.34 case length. Hornady recommends 3.4 fof thst bullet, for 60 thou extra depth would i be playing with fire? I also looked at the 200gr but like the BC from that bullet and locally i can get it."
Strange. I read it as saying the longest he could seat his bullet was 3.340", and that would force him to seat the bullet 0.060" deeper in the case than he wanted to, and wanted to know if that was dangerous? I guess different people read different things...
60 thousands is about 20 sheets of printer paper...doesn't seem like much in a 30-06 case. The minimum/start load you have is based on COL 3.4, and you want to start with a smaller capacity so start a bit lower. You'll be working up regardless. I mentioned nervous nelly in my post only to consider the general condition change to your case for seating deeper.
I had a PH 1200C for a while in 30-06 (Santa Barbara action), and know the effort you're putting in now is worth it. It left the premises a few years before I started handloading.
I have just not loaded outside of the book values, hence my concern and asking the questions. I know 60 thou is not a lot but there is a 60000psi pressure built up 6in from your face so it could be a big deal, ha ha. I will be starting at book minimums and working up from there, the main thing was wanting to make sure that the minimum value with a 60 thou deeper bullet seating would not cause enough of a pressure spike to be dangerous.
I hunted with a few guys with a PH and since I was about 16 I wanted a nice one. I was looking for a 30-06 POS to build a rifle from but I found a 1970s PH for $300 at a gun show, the sights had been taken off and the crown was odd but for $300 for a good Mauser 98 action is not bad anyway so I picked it up.
I got my hands on some MFS ammo and shot it, scared the crap out of me, loaded over pressure and flattened the primers, it did not look like reloads but I did read after the fact that MFS was iffy at times.
I picked up some Grey box Winchester 180gr flat base and at 50 yards I have 3 shots touching without holding properly (kept forehand back after that over pressure stuff for a few shots). The 150gr Igman that I have shoots about 3in at that same 50 yards, may be the Igman but it may also be the bullet.
I pulled the gun apart and noticed some creaking in the stock, thing had warped and was contacting the barrel at the forend so I pulled out some sand paper and a large socket and floated the barrel, now the barrelled action drops into the stock beautifully now. I have not been back to the range in a bit to test things again, we have a new baby so I am relegated to forums and dreaming for another month or so, ha ha.
I don't want to shoot 180s, that is what everyone shoots, flat points are not something I want to look at, 30/06 at 100 yards is easy to do, I want to play and go bigger and further, just because, may never hunt at that range but if I am going to put the time in reloading why not reload for some precision and learn along the way.
My crown is iffy right now too but I have a friend with a Brownells crowning tool so if this thing does not bring in tight groups I will cut a new crown.
