Quality red dot

[Can-down]

The spark does go through battery's and their not stocked most places , I ordered them in through the source and received in 2 weeks . Saying that I have no other problems you can buy a lot of battery's for the diff between the Aimpoint

Buying batteries in bulk on line is a good idea, The Spark II uses more common batteries and the improved power switch location means way less chance of bumping the unit on unintentionally.

Aimpoint has been at it since the mid 70's and know a thing or two about red dots........ 10 year warranty for the original casual shooter, 2 years for competitors and pros. Not sure if they even have a repair depot in Canada but you sure don't hear about many problems here on CGN. As with anything man made and electronic there must be a few units that have failed over the years, but I can't recall one bad story in all the time I've been reading CGN posts.

 

[Kidd X]

I agree with the not holding zero. Maybe I got a bad one but mine always wandered.

Not sure if you're aware of the lawsuit against L3/EOTech and the flood of returns, but All EOTech sights are defective and have been for nearly a decade.

 

[tjhaile]

I bought a used T1 thats from 2008 and it's fine. Built like a rock, and I'll treat it like a rock. I recommend an aimpoint of some sort man, I don't know why, but electronic sights scare me...better to get the one that won't fail you. And if you're thinking of putting it on a rifle you're going to potentially use in combat, you'd have to be crazy AF to choose anything but Aimpoint or Eotech, and I wouldn't go with an Eotech if I was going to be somewhere cold because according to SOCOM, they don't hold zero in those conditions.

You may even want to consider an aimpoint CompM4 for your gun, seriously, if it could go on a fighting gun you want something tougher than what vortex offers...talk to Calgary Shooting Center or someone in your area. Your life is not a thing to risk for saving $200 on an optic...you can make more money, you can't come back from being dead. Vortex or holosun is fine for plinking, but once you start thinking about an active fighting gun it's an entirely different subject.

I would absolutely recommend an Aimpoint on a rifle that is going to be taken into harm's way. The thing is that I would not choose a Type 97 as a rifle to be taken into harm's way.

 

[LeducAb]

HS515CU I own two and I can't see a reason to get anything else.

One is mounted on my 45/70 guide gun and the other is on a 20ga semi auto shotgun.

Both have held zero through hundreds of rounds.

 

[ShawnC6]

Has anyone tried the Sparc II? It looked promising.

1000 rounds on a T97 with no issue other than a battery dying.

 

[Horse96]

Except they don't hold zero, drain batteries for no reason, delaminate and cause reticle fading/disappearing and are not waterproof.

Buy the Aimpoint, you won't regret it and you won't question its performance. You get what you pay for.

Haha. Because we all need to worry about scuba diving with our guns. Lol. They don't hold zero, from what I've heard, in sub minus 20 Celsius. And those are the recalled versions. I'm sure by now they are upgraded and fixed.

And I'd be inclined to spend money on an optic for any Rifle. Most people buy and sell rifles, why worry about upgrading your optic. One optic and you're good to go.

Cannot go wrong with a quality optic. I saw a review on the holosun where the parallax was a factor when using it with a magnifier. Eotech's or aimpoints don't have that problem.

https://youtu.be/VwtfSSDmnIY

 

[Horse96]

Dbl post, pls delete

Except they don't hold zero, drain batteries for no reason, delaminate and cause reticle fading/disappearing and are not waterproof.

Buy the Aimpoint, you won't regret it and you won't question its performance. You get what you pay for.

Haha. Because we all need to worry about scuba diving with our guns. Lol. They don't hold zero, from what I've heard, in sub minus 20 Celsius. And those are the recalled versions. I'm sure by now they are upgraded and fixed.

And I'd be inclined to spend money on an optic for any Rifle. Most people buy and sell rifles, why worry about upgrading your optic. One optic and you're good to go.

Cannot go wrong with a quality optic. I saw a review on the holosun where the parallax was a factor when using it with a magnifier. Eotech's or aimpoints don't have that problem.

https://youtu.be/VwtfSSDmnIY

 

[Kidd X]

Haha. Because we all need to worry about scuba diving with our guns. Lol. They don't hold zero, from what I've heard, in sub minus 20 Celsius. And those are the recalled versions. I'm sure by now they are upgraded and fixed.

And I'd be inclined to spend money on an optic for any Rifle. Most people buy and sell rifles, why worry about upgrading your optic. One optic and you're good to go.

Cannot go wrong with a quality optic. I saw a review on the holosun where the parallax was a factor when using it with a magnifier. Eotech's or aimpoints don't have that problem.

https://youtu.be/VwtfSSDmnIY

If you had actually looked into the issues with EOTech sights you would know that the issue is not JUST with the extreme temps. The issues are numerous and include the following:

Summary of the Problem

Identified performance issues include:

Thermal Drift – After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures.

Fading Reticle – The complete 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle may not be visible to the operator throughout the entire viewing window of the ECOS-Q optic. The ECOS-Q system’s age and environmental exposure are factors which accelerate reticle dimming. Impact to operators is the holographic reticle may not be visible in all firing positions.

HWS DiagramParallax Error – Parallax is an apparent change in the position of an object resulting from a change in position of the observer. The 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle point of aim will appear to move in relation to your target during off-axis firing positions where maintaining cheek-weld and sight picture is not feasible. The ECOS-Q system has the potential of approximately 4 Minute of Angle (MOA) parallax error at 70°F and approximately 6 MOA parallax error at 5°F. Impact to the operators is the point of aim / point of impact will be affected by a MOA parallax error, in off-axis firing positions at all temperatures.

Is My EOTech safe to use?

There is no known fix for the problem other than replacing the unit. Degree of inaccuracy and MOA variance will change based upon the ambient temperature the HWS was zero’d at, the amount of humidity it has been exposed to over its operational life, the age of the HWS and the ambient temperature the HWS is used at while engaging target. We do not recommend continuing to use the EOTech HWS system in scenarios where reliable targeting is necessary across a broad range of temperatures or humidity.

What misrepresentations did EOTech make to US consumers?

Beginning in 2005, in its product marketing brochures, EOTech represented, “Extreme Durability – Built to take it: The HWS has been designed and tested to provide consistent, reliable performance even in the most hostile operational environments. The HWS is Waterproof (submersible), fogproof, shockproof, and withstands extreme temperature variations.”
It also represented, “No Reticle Wash-Out: The HWSʼs 30 brightness settings ensure the holographic reticle can be instantly viewed in ALL types of lighting environments, cluttered back- grounds and target colors. The HWS delivers an impressive 10,000,000:1 bright to low reticle contrast ratio … to ensure the reticle is always clearly viewable.”
In the HDS Specifications, it also said that the optics were “100% parallax free”.
EO Tech’s brochure specified the temperature operating rage to be: “-40 to 150 F(using AA lithiums); -20 to 150 F(all other battery choices)”

What did EOTech know?

In 2006, EOTech became aware that its sights failed to maintain zero with temperature changes, a condition it referred to as “thermal drift”.
EOTech’s CEO admits he knew that EOTech’s sights were experiencing increasing parallax errors in cold temperatures as early as March, 2007.
In early 2007, EOTech became aware that its sights were experiencing increasing parallax error in cold temperature. At 32° F, the parallax error was 12 MOA, i.e., 12 inches for every hundred yards, when measured from outside edge to outside edge of the sight; and at 5° F, the error was more than 20 MOA, from outside edge to outside edge.
In February 2009, EOTech became aware, based on testing a sample of sights, that moisture was entering its sights. When moisture enters a sight, it can cause a dimming of the reticle. Reticle dimming can occur more quickly in humid environments. An optic’s reticle is necessary to allow the user to acquire a target.
EOTech continued to sell its sights to the Government, Consumers, and others.
EOTech has been part of the L3 “Warrior Systems” division since 2011.
Beginning in 2011 , EOTech conducted testing of sights sold to Crane and found thermal drift of 2 to 6 MOA over temperature variations for its carbine sights.
EOTech continued to sell its sights to the government and the public without disclosing its findings.

Read the bold as they are the MAIN problems. They don't mention the inconsistent click values or the mysterious battery drain, the failed battery contacts or the somewhat common battery leakage that occurs. At the bottom you will see that EOTech/L3 Communications KNOWINGLY sold defective optics to many many people including those who's lives depend on their optics, hence the large payout to the US military. That is what is known as SHADY BUSINESS PRACTICE.

The issues have not been corrected as they are a result of the design EOTech uses. So they sell an optic that has no published/known operating temps, is not waterproof to include ambient moisture, has random reticle fade issues, inconsistent adjustment click values, battery contact and battery drain problems. And yet they still think it's appropriate to charge many hundreds of dollars for DEFECTIVE optics? Again some more SHADY BUSINESS PRACTICE is at play here.

I will deviate here a bit and cover the two most common "awesome" points about EOTech sights.

"The reticle is awesome, it draws my eye and offers a rapid close range engagement zone with the 65 MOA ring."- All BS, that effective zone the ring creates is no different than the area around a plain old reddot. If you have any clue how to use a reddot you aren't looking at the reticle to begin with as your focus should be on the target. Not firing until you see your dot on the target means your shots will go where they should. Pulling the trigger when you see the ring on your target may result in a miss. Try working on being more consistent in mounting the rifle and improving your ability to swing the rifle. Both will get you faster and more accurate hits on target.

"The field of view is unparalleled."- Probably the biggest BS statement of any reddot optic. Again, if you have any clue how to properly use a reddot optic then you know that you MUST KEEP BOTH EYES OPEN and you MUST FOCUS ON THE TARGET. If you neglect to do either then you might as well be using a traditional magnified optic and get "stuck in the optic". your FOV is UNLIMITED when you keep both eyes open which is the entire premise behind using a reddot sight.

 

[GD7]

If you have the cash for an Aimpoint, use nothing else. The CSS price on the H1 is outstanding.

 

[Roddy]

Not sure if you're aware of the lawsuit against L3/EOTech and the flood of returns, but All EOTech sights are defective and have been for nearly a decade.

I had heard but I had thought some must still be okay since the military used it for so long before they noticed.

 

[Greenhorse six]

Trijicon MRO is worth a look , been using one for over a year now on a AR , and it makes me look like I can shoot .lol

 

[hfx123]

The spark does go through battery's and their not stocked most places , I ordered them in through the source and received in 2 weeks . Saying that I have no other problems you can buy a lot of battery's for the diff between the Aimpoint

Well over 80 hours on bright with battery mod. You don't need the 2354. Use a 2032 and a nickel. Both items can be found darn near anywhere

Or get the sparc2 it takes 2032

 

[SuperCub]

I bought a used T1 thats from 2008 and it's fine. Built like a rock, and I'll treat it like a rock. I recommend an aimpoint of some sort man, I don't know why, but electronic sights scare me...better to get the one that won't fail you. And if you're thinking of putting it on a rifle you're going to potentially use in combat, you'd have to be crazy AF to choose anything but Aimpoint or Eotech, and I wouldn't go with an Eotech if I was going to be somewhere cold because according to SOCOM, they don't hold zero in those conditions.

You may even want to consider an aimpoint CompM4 for your gun, seriously, if it could go on a fighting gun you want something tougher than what vortex offers...talk to Calgary Shooting Center or someone in your area. Your life is not a thing to risk for saving $200 on an optic...you can make more money, you can't come back from being dead. Vortex or holosun is fine for plinking, but once you start thinking about an active fighting gun it's an entirely different subject.

Really dude? ...... Combat, fighting gun, dead?

LOL

 

[Foxer2373]

I bought a used T1 thats from 2008 and it's fine. Built like a rock, and I'll treat it like a rock. I recommend an aimpoint of some sort man, I don't know why, but electronic sights scare me...better to get the one that won't fail you. And if you're thinking of putting it on a rifle you're going to potentially use in combat, you'd have to be crazy AF to choose anything but Aimpoint or Eotech, and I wouldn't go with an Eotech if I was going to be somewhere cold because according to SOCOM, they don't hold zero in those conditions.

You may even want to consider an aimpoint CompM4 for your gun, seriously, if it could go on a fighting gun you want something tougher than what vortex offers...talk to Calgary Shooting Center or someone in your area. Your life is not a thing to risk for saving $200 on an optic...you can make more money, you can't come back from being dead. Vortex or holosun is fine for plinking, but once you start thinking about an active fighting gun it's an entirely different subject.

Two very different conversations here, first was what to put on my T97, I'm sorry but use your imagination of an aimpoint and buy a better gun! Then it went to what if I enlist and they put my into a unit (good luck, pick my lotto numbers while your at it) that lets you use your own optic....

Can with sum this up with

Money not an issue:Aimpoint

Crappiest non restricted:under 300$ or use your imagination until you buy a better gun.

All AR's multiple: Aimpoint and switch it

All different guns: under $300 on each

All different no budget: go nuts buy what you want

Going off to war: Aimpoint, no kidding no one has even mentioned that Vortex and holosun have positive laser signatures out the front of the optic..... no crap you don't want that!

Global SHTF: not going to happen, loss of 95% of population still leaves 340 million people world wide, grab whatever you have in the closet and go out and upgrade as you level up out there.

 

[tjhaile]

Haha. Because we all need to worry about scuba diving with our guns. Lol. They don't hold zero, from what I've heard, in sub minus 20 Celsius. And those are the recalled versions. I'm sure by now they are upgraded and fixed.

And I'd be inclined to spend money on an optic for any Rifle. Most people buy and sell rifles, why worry about upgrading your optic. One optic and you're good to go.

Cannot go wrong with a quality optic. I saw a review on the holosun where the parallax was a factor when using it with a magnifier. Eotech's or aimpoints don't have that problem.

https://youtu.be/VwtfSSDmnIY

Compared with the HS403A in the video, The HS403G can use industry standard (i.e Aimpoint Micro) risers to allow co-witness with a magnifier and has a relocated battery compartment. That said, if I wanted magnification, I would choose a low-power variable over a red dot with magnifier.

EOTechs are probably good enough for most people's recreational use, but they are priced similarly to Aimpoints, despite known issues. This would disqualify them as a "quality for quality's sake" choice.

The title of this article says it all;
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=1526

 

[Kidd X]

I had heard but I had thought some must still be okay since the military used it for so long before they noticed.

The US military got swindled for a decade before they discovered the problems and subsequently sued L3 and got their money back. Lots of LE departments returning them as well as military units. Whether or not L3 has fixed the problem isn't the issue. The scumbag decision to sell defective sights AFTER they knew they were defective speaks volumes about the company. Would you trust their products knowing they lied about previous offerings for nearly a decade, only to admit it AFTER they were caught?

 

[p.Rundle]

Really dude? ...... Combat, fighting gun, dead?

LOL

He made it really seem like this optic was going on his T-97 and potentially on his duty gun as well. That's what I was referring to as a fighting gun. Duty guns are used in fights, last time I checked.