.223 Rem powder options

Just wanted to say thank you again for all the input on this thread. Ended up with some Varget and put 24 grains of it under the Nosler 69 gr. HPBT's. I only had a chance to do a quick test with a couple of them, but they look promising.

Prior to building up several of my own cartridges, I had a chance to try out some commercial match grade ammo. I wanted to share the results as they definitely surprised me.

The rifle I am using has a 1:9 in twist and 22" barrel. The ammo was Hornady Match 68 gr HPBT. This following is the result at a distance of 25 yards ....



Previously I had been using 55 gr FMJ out to 200 yards, with no issues at all. And then purchased the Nosler 69 gr bullets partly due to the fact that it is advertised to only be used in barrels with a twist rate of 1:9.

Needless to say, after shooting the Hornady ammo and seeing the result, I was pretty skeptical about how things would go with my reloads. Thank goodness they look nothing like in the picture above.

As I have just started to learn about reloading, it seems quite bizarre to me that 1 gr of weight could make such an incredible difference in how the bullets react when leaving the barrel. Is this a velocity issue, or is there another factor at play?
 
jibjedi said:
Just wanted to say thank you again for all the input on this thread. Ended up with some Varget and put 24 grains of it under the Nosler 69 gr. HPBT's. I only had a chance to do a quick test with a couple of them, but they look promising.

Prior to building up several of my own cartridges, I had a chance to try out some commercial match grade ammo. I wanted to share the results as they definitely surprised me.

The rifle I am using has a 1:9 in twist and 22" barrel. The ammo was Hornady Match 68 gr HPBT. This following is the result at a distance of 25 yards ....



Previously I had been using 55 gr FMJ out to 200 yards, with no issues at all. And then purchased the Nosler 69 gr bullets partly due to the fact that it is advertised to only be used in barrels with a twist rate of 1:9.

Needless to say, after shooting the Hornady ammo and seeing the result, I was pretty skeptical about how things would go with my reloads. Thank goodness they look nothing like in the picture above.

As I have just started to learn about reloading, it seems quite bizarre to me that 1 gr of weight could make such an incredible difference in how the bullets react when leaving the barrel. Is this a velocity issue, or is there another factor at play?
Click to expand...

That's some pretty nasty tumbling!!! Wow, every single one impacted nearly sideways. The bullets look to be nearly .75" long based on that and the known 2960 fps of the hornady ammo you should be able to shoot that in your 1-9 twist without issue. There's definitely something wrong here, big time.

EDIT: Quickload has that bullet length at 0.985" which puts it borderline for your twist. This may be your problem. You have a 22" inch barrel and the MV is 2960 in a 24" barrel, assuming ~100 fps loss it may not be moving fast enough to stabilize.
 
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jibjedi said:
So it would be a certain velocity range, combined with barrel length that would cause this then?
Click to expand...

I am by no means an expert, someone more knowledgeable than me can correct me if I am way off but my theory is that the hornady bullets are too long for your twist at the velocity that your rifle is capable. The Nolser bullet is slightly shorter at .9" and may stabilize but the hornady is a little too long and upsets
 
jibjedi said:
Just wanted to say thank you again for all the input on this thread. Ended up with some Varget and put 24 grains of it under the Nosler 69 gr. HPBT's. I only had a chance to do a quick test with a couple of them, but they look promising.

Prior to building up several of my own cartridges, I had a chance to try out some commercial match grade ammo. I wanted to share the results as they definitely surprised me.

The rifle I am using has a 1:9 in twist and 22" barrel. The ammo was Hornady Match 68 gr HPBT. This following is the result at a distance of 25 yards ....



Previously I had been using 55 gr FMJ out to 200 yards, with no issues at all. And then purchased the Nosler 69 gr bullets partly due to the fact that it is advertised to only be used in barrels with a twist rate of 1:9.

Needless to say, after shooting the Hornady ammo and seeing the result, I was pretty skeptical about how things would go with my reloads. Thank goodness they look nothing like in the picture above.

As I have just started to learn about reloading, it seems quite bizarre to me that 1 gr of weight could make such an incredible difference in how the bullets react when leaving the barrel. Is this a velocity issue, or is there another factor at play?
Click to expand...

Wow. Who's reloads were those? The pic is at 25yards?
 
I've had good luck with 335 for light loads and heavier gr like 77gr I like BLC-2 and it meters well. I really like the new IMR 4166 but shears to much in a dillon powder measure.
 
i'd check to see if the rifling twist is indeed 1-9 or failing that check for rifling? New guns have left the factory without it,crooked chambers marked wrong caliber etc...............Wow! Harold
 
thebaron said:
That's some pretty nasty tumbling!!! Wow, every single one impacted nearly sideways. The bullets look to be nearly .75" long based on that and the known 2960 fps of the hornady ammo you should be able to shoot that in your 1-9 twist without issue. There's definitely something wrong here, big time.

EDIT: Quickload has that bullet length at 0.985" which puts it borderline for your twist. This may be your problem. You have a 22" inch barrel and the MV is 2960 in a 24" barrel, assuming ~100 fps loss it may not be moving fast enough to stabilize.
Click to expand...

2nd the opinion to check the twist. Tumbling that bad surely means twist is not as advertised. I recommend the Hrn 68gr BTHP to my customers that have a "slow" 9 twist and they all have reported positive results. To tumble that bad, you likely have a 10 or even a 12 twist barrel. This twist will support the 55's you have shot in the past but will get real sketchy with heavier slugs.

You suggested that you shot some Nosler 68's with resonable success. Consider this when testing... No matter the load, you seem to always get a shot that drifts wide of the main group. Test at 200yds and it will be VERY obvious. Knowing that the twist may be slow, you may be riding the borderline of stability and those flyers are bullets which are unstable.

I understand that it is expensive to test but consider a Hrn 60gr Vmax... if these stabilise, you have your answer. There are some nice options in the 60 to 64gr range.

For powders, consider IMR8208, H4895, Benchmark, AR Comp for the lighter bullets. CCI 450 primers if where you are shooting is well below zero.

Good luck but unfortunately, we do see factory rifles with barrels not as advertised...

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
2nd the opinion to check the twist. Tumbling that bad surely means twist is not as advertised. I recommend the Hrn 68gr BTHP to my customers that have a "slow" 9 twist and they all have reported positive results. To tumble that bad, you likely have a 10 or even a 12 twist barrel. This twist will support the 55's you have shot in the past but will get real sketchy with heavier slugs.

You suggested that you shot some Nosler 68's with resonable success. Consider this when testing... No matter the load, you seem to always get a shot that drifts wide of the main group. Test at 200yds and it will be VERY obvious. Knowing that the twist may be slow, you may be riding the borderline of stability and those flyers are bullets which are unstable.

I understand that it is expensive to test but consider a Hrn 60gr Vmax... if these stabilise, you have your answer. There are some nice options in the 60 to 64gr range.

For powders, consider IMR8208, H4895, Benchmark, AR Comp for the lighter bullets. CCI 450 primers if where you are shooting is well below zero.

Good luck but unfortunately, we do see factory rifles with barrels not as advertised...

Jerry
Click to expand...

The rifle is a CZ 527 American. It came to me second hand, but I put a brand new VX1 onto it.
I haven't had a chance to do any serious testing of the rifle's accuracy, but I did use a few 55 gr bullets to zero in the new scope at 200 yards, and was very happy with the results.

As mentioned, the few reloads I did have a chance to build up were with the Nosler 69 gr HPBT custom competition bullets, and 24 grs of varget underneath. These few rounds I quickly fired off from a kneeling position out to roughly 100 yards, and they were all within a couple inches.

If the 69 gr bullets worked that well, again I am quite shocked that the 68 gr ones would be so off.

I will have my gunsmith try to confirm the twist rate.
 
jibjedi said:
The rifle is a CZ 527 American. It came to me second hand, but I put a brand new VX1 onto it.
I haven't had a chance to do any serious testing of the rifle's accuracy, but I did use a few 55 gr bullets to zero in the new scope at 200 yards, and was very happy with the results.

As mentioned, the few reloads I did have a chance to build up were with the Nosler 69 gr HPBT custom competition bullets, and 24 grs of varget underneath. These few rounds I quickly fired off from a kneeling position out to roughly 100 yards, and they were all within a couple inches.

If the 69 gr bullets worked that well, again I am quite shocked that the 68 gr ones would be so off.

I will have my gunsmith try to confirm the twist rate.
Click to expand...

The CZ website lists it at 1-12 twist. This is your problem.
 
jibjedi said:
Not according to the company website info .....

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american-223-rem/
Click to expand...

Since you bought the rifle second d hand it's very safe to assume you have the older, discontinued model with the 1-12.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american-223-rem-5-rd-mag-1-rings-incl/

It was discontinued in 2014 and replaced with the new 1-9 after 2014.

With a 1-12 it is 100% your tumbling problem is twist related.

Cheers
 
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Yep, 12 twist sure makes alot of sense... load accordingly and have a ton of fun. The barrel is obviously accurate enough.

Play in the 55 to 62gr range and enjoy...

Lots of great shooting bullets ... no issue going out beyond 500 yds in light winds.

Jerry
 
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