Would like opinions of the best use of my brass

[sure as shootin]

I've recently obtained a batch (98) of once fired Lapua .308 brass for a great price. I also scooped up another 60 once fired Nosler pieces of brass a short while ago, too. Up until this point I've been doing all my hunting loads with Nosler brass loaded up with TTSX and all my practice rounds (Hornady interlocks) with a variety of other makes but mostly F.C. (a couple hundred of these). Although I did a fair bit of shooting with the TTSX over the spring and summer this past year developing a real accurate TTSX load with a velocity I was happy with using the Nosler brass, I probably won't be shooting as many of those in the future because they're a buck a bullet and I may as well save them for hunting.

I mostly want to shoot the practice rounds I plan on making up which have a similar POI as my TTSX hunting rounds, to the tune of 250-300 rounds per year since I also shoot other practice rounds from other rifles. So what I'm wondering is, how should I employ the brass that I have, especially the Lapua which has the ability to be used many times before you retire them??

Should I just continue to use the Nosler brass that has had 3-4 firings from them for my TTSX hunting rounds and may not get fired again until I actually hunt with them and then use the Lapua for practicing with since I'll be able to reload them a large number of times? Maybe I should be doing that with the Nosler, as well, since they're a better brass than the F.C or R.P. and should get me a few more firings from each piece,,,,and then use the lower quality brass for hunting? Using the Lapua brass for hunting doesn't seem to make a lot of sense since they won't get fired all that often but they would probably be the most reliable and the most accurate.

What would you suggest?

 

[Ron AKA]

If it were me, I would use the brass that you don't mind losing when hunting. You never know if you will have time to recover brass or not. Also hunting does not require 0.5 MOA precision. When you shoot targets you probably do want to see small groups, so that is where you could make better use of the Lapua quality brass.

As far as keeping costs down for target shooting and getting the same POI, that is going to take more work. You can either do it by trial and error, or use a ballistics program. A ballistics program is likely the much cheaper way to go, but may not be as much fun as shooting a bunch of different bullets and loads...

As far as brass life goes, yes it helps to start with good annealed brass. However, to get maximum life you need to work the brass a minimal amount with a Lee Collet Die for example, and still anneal every 5 firings.

 

[sure as shootin]

If it were me, I would use the brass that you don't mind losing when hunting. You never know if you will have time to recover brass or not. Also hunting does not require 0.5 MOA precision. When you shoot targets you probably do want to see small groups, so that is where you could make better use of the Lapua quality brass.

As far as keeping costs down for target shooting and getting the same POI, that is going to take more work. You can either do it by trial and error, or use a ballistics program. A ballistics program is likely the much cheaper way to go, but may not be as much fun as shooting a bunch of different bullets and loads...

As far as brass life goes, yes it helps to start with good annealed brass. However, to get maximum life you need to work the brass a minimal amount with a Lee Collet Die for example, and still anneal every 5 firings.

I've already done the work for my practice rounds. The projectiles I'm using (40 cents each), so a lot cheaper than the TTSX, have almost the exact same POI as my 130 gr. TTSX and if I want the practice rounds to be bang on I just need to move the turrets a couple of notches. I have recorded the exact number of clicks I need to move them in my book in order to do it, if I want to get real fussy.

I think I'll continue to use my Nosler for my hunting rounds since I do have a real solid load made up already for that make of brass and use the Lapua which should give me the most firings per piece for all my practice shooting. I'll also use my F.C., R.P., an Hornady for shooting practice out of all of my hunting positions, too, until they're worn out.

I'd like to have a good annealer one day but for now I'll use the easily obtainable .308 brass until it can no longer be used. I know there are cheaper home style ways to anneal with candles and blow torches, etc. but after researching and reading a lot of articles about proper annealing it doesn't sound that these alternativemethods work all that well.

 

[Ron AKA]

I'd like to have a good annealer one day but for now I'll use the easily obtainable .308 brass until it can no longer be used. I know there are cheaper home style ways to anneal with candles and blow torches, etc. but after researching and reading a lot of articles about proper annealing it doesn't sound that these alternativemethods work all that well.

If you need to anneal 100's or 1000's of rounds per week, for sure you need an automatic annealer. Some anneal after every firing. However a fancy machine is not a sure thing to properly anneal. If the brass is not brought up to the right temperature for the right amount of time, no annealing takes place.

Doing it essentially by hand is not that difficult. You need the Lee Case Holder used for case trimming. Put a drill in a vice to hold it, and one by one put each case into the case holder and lock it. While the case is spinning heat up the shoulder and neck only with a propane torch. Work in a dimly lit room and hold the temperature so the case shows a dull red for about 5 seconds each. Unlock the case and drop it onto a wet towel or a pail of water. You don't want the heat to go down the case. You can get annealing in 5 seconds if the temperature is held at 885 deg F, which is a dull glow in a dimly lit room. I used to believe you needed a dull red glow in a very dark room, but I now think that is a bit too low in temperature. Practice with some junk range brass to get the technique down, before you go at your good Lapua stuff.

 

[hometownhero]

If you need to anneal 100's or 1000's of rounds per week, for sure you need an automatic annealer. Some anneal after every firing. However a fancy machine is not a sure thing to properly anneal. If the brass is not brought up to the right temperature for the right amount of time, no annealing takes place.

Doing it essentially by hand is not that difficult. You need the Lee Case Holder used for case trimming. Put a drill in a vice to hold it, and one by one put each case into the case holder and lock it. While the case is spinning heat up the shoulder and neck only with a propane torch. Work in a dimly lit room and hold the temperature so the case shows a dull red for about 5 seconds each. Unlock the case and drop it onto a wet towel or a pail of water. You don't want the heat to go down the case. You can get annealing in 5 seconds if the temperature is held at 885 deg F, which is a dull glow in a dimly lit room. I used to believe you needed a dull red glow in a very dark room, but I now think that is a bit too low in temperature. Practice with some junk range brass to get the technique down, before you go at your good Lapua stuff.

Or you could know exactly how hot the brass is with 750 degree templaq. It isn't expensive and if you are going to anneal might as well get the temp right and no try do it by how much it glows.

 

[Ron AKA]

Or you could know exactly how hot the brass is with 750 degree templaq. It isn't expensive and if you are going to anneal might as well get the temp right and no try do it by how much it glows.

Templaq can work as an initial set up tool. However, you need to put it inside the neck, and need a temperature range more like 880-890 F. It will take 8-9 minutes to anneal at 750 F, and by then, the bottom of the case is going to get too hot. I have tried the tempilstick, but find it too messy and time consuming. Again it can help you get your eye calibrated, but in the end, the visible glow is the more workable indicator.

 

[Eagleye]

If you see a visible glow in even poorer light conditions, you have overheated your brass, and it is now good for the scarp bin.
Here is a short excerpt from 6mmBR site:

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft.

Once again, RonAKA is giving out info that has the potential to be dangerous.

Regards, Dave.

 

[hometownhero]

If you see a visible glow in even poorer light conditions, you have overheated your brass, and it is now good for the scarp bin.
Here is a short excerpt from 6mmBR site:

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft.

Once again, RonAKA is giving out info that has the potential to be dangerous.

Regards, Dave.

Listen to this man. He has probably forgotten more about reloading then we will ever know.

 

[sure as shootin]

If you see a visible glow in even poorer light conditions, you have overheated your brass, and it is now good for the scarp bin.
Here is a short excerpt from 6mmBR site:

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft.

Once again, RonAKA is giving out info that has the potential to be dangerous.

Regards, Dave.

I've looked through the whole article before, Dave,,,,thanks! I've had it saved on my computer for quite awhile, plus several others, as well, and that's why I don't want to try annealing without the proper equipment which is more money than I want to spend on reloading equipment right now. Right now I'm probably shooting around 4-500 rounds per year through the late spring and summer months prior to the hunting season with my 7-08 and .308,,,,so about 250 rounds each. I'm hoping that I can get enough firings out of my brass so when I do have to eventually replace the brass down the road, I'll feel it has served me well.

What I need is a neighbour who owns a nice reliable annealer. LOL

 

[Ron AKA]

I've looked through the whole article before, Dave,,,,thanks! I've had it saved on my computer for quite awhile, plus several others, as well, and that's why I don't want to try annealing without the proper equipment which is more money than I want to spend on reloading equipment right now. Right now I'm probably shooting around 4-500 rounds per year through the late spring and summer months prior to the hunting season with my 7-08 and .308,,,,so about 250 rounds each. I'm hoping that I can get enough firings out of my brass so when I do have to eventually replace the brass down the road, I'll feel it has served me well.

What I need is a neighbour who owns a nice reliable annealer. LOL

How do you know a "nice reliable annealer" gets your brass to the right temperature? I think the only way is to use an accurate infrared imaging camera. Kill the flame at the point where you think the temperature has peaked and see what the real temperature is with the camera. Not aware of any manufacturers that have gone to that level of design. There is not a lot of real engineering that goes into these devices.

But you are right that there are a lot of myths circulating about cartridge brass annealing temperatures. It is essentially impossible to anneal cartridge brass at 750 F, but many think they are annealing at that temperature. Consider that a full anneal of brass requires over 1,100 deg F. That is what it is heated up to during the manufacturing process after the drawing stages.

 

[hometownhero]

On another note I have some brass that has over 15 firings on it and has never been annealed. Still using that brass and lost count after 15 of how many are on it. And get this none of it is lapua brass. The lapua I bought is sitting in the blue box under my bench after 3 firings. Another box of lapua hand even been used yet because I don't want to wast components fireforming it to get neck tension where it should be.

 

[sure as shootin]

I'm not exactly sure how many firings I have on some of my .308 brass. I tried to keep count but sometimes I forget to bag it with the next firing number. That's one thing I need to be a little more diligent about. That being said, I've only had to scrap the VERY odd one because of a split neck. However, the last time I loaded up a few dozen of my practice bullets using my F.C. brass I noticed that the primer went into the pocket fairly easily on a few pieces of brass.

If that was to happen again is it a good idea to deprime those and scrap those pieces of brass?

 

[hometownhero]

I would just shoot them and scrap next time. I have also given up on counting how many times my brass has been fired. Shoot, size, clean and toss it in a bucket with the rest. Doesn't matter if it is 10 I shoot or 50. All shoots less then now so that's good enough for me.

 

[sure as shootin]

I would just shoot them and scrap next time. I have also given up on counting how many times my brass has been fired. Shoot, size, clean and toss it in a bucket with the rest. Doesn't matter if it is 10 I shoot or 50. All shoots less then now so that's good enough for me.

I guess if I was to do that I would have to mark the brass with a sharpy so I'd know which ones they were. I wonder how much a slightly looser pocket will affect the performance of the primer,,,,less velocity? Less accuracy?

 

[Ron AKA]

However, the last time I loaded up a few dozen of my practice bullets using my F.C. brass I noticed that the primer went into the pocket fairly easily on a few pieces of brass.
If that was to happen again is it a good idea to deprime those and scrap those pieces of brass?

I would shoot them, and mark them for watching. It does indicate the case has seen excessive pressure, so you may want to review your loads.

 

[Eagleye]

If it is FC brass, it may be "growing" with perfectly normal loads. Their brass tends to be soft, and will expand with loads that do not
have any effect on other brands of brass. I avoid the stuff whenever possible.
In fact, metallurgically speaking, FC brass contains the highest % of copper of any brass marketed, thus the softness.
When you can seat a primer with little noticeable effort, scrap that brass.
Dave.

 

[c-fbmi]

Like Dave said you can't go by FC brass for pressure indicators, it's just too soft period. I too avoid it at all cost.........I shoot 'em as long as the primer doesn't literally fall out when I put it in..........I have even loctited primers in, works just fine, but I wouldn't bother with FC brass. Hell I went and hunted Africa (not dangerous game, obviously) with loctited primers and then just left them on the ground. They go bang and the bullet goes where it's supposed to........what can I say..........it works, and not a one leaked.