- Location
- Jameson, SK
Been seeing lots of "452 is better" comments lately. How come??
Thx.
GGG
Thx.
GGG
CZ 452 vs 455??
- Thread starter Gunneegoogoo
- Start date
hold out for a 452, the way the barrel is installed is better me thinks, the ability to swap calibers is nice but also a pain, not something you could do out in the field easily and once you get bitten by the CZ bug your not going to just stop at one rifle anyway
- Location
- Jameson, SK
....dammit....too late. Unfired 455 evo in 17 in my basement now. Just waiting for its DIP dovetail to picatinny adapter.
I have no intention of caliber swapping. Is that what the 455 offers over the 452??
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
Shot both, own both... aside from the barrel attachment, both models are very similar. When installed correctly, either one is very accurate. The barrel swap feature is interesting if that appeals to one, but there is something to be said for the more permanent nature of barrel installation in the 452.
In a nutshell, more people seem to be having issues with 455's performing poorly than 452's. If you explore the history on Rimfire Central's CZ forum there's nothing but good things about the 452 in the past but now 455 complaints are a regular occurrence. There seems to be two root issues with the 455 platform, loose headspace and poorly chambered barrels. Getting into the new "C" prefix serial number 455's the manufacturing tolerances may be better now in terms of the headspace, I checked one and it was 0.0445" so pretty good coming from the factory. My "B" prefix 455 was 0.048" which borders on No-Go territory. Minimum spec, a Go gauge, is 0.043". Some custom builders will take it down to 0.0405" as they feel a tight tolerance is better but production rifles must all adhere to SAAMI spec.
A bad chamber is killer though, see what I got from my 455. How could this ever perform well? CZ officially says these burrs are "normal and acceptable". I've seen them in 3/5 455's I've looked at with my borescope, one was so bad the burrs curled like J's and pointed back out the muzzle! There is an account of Rimfire Central though of one guy who got 3 452's with those terrible burrs in the chamber though so it's not something that's 455 exclusive.
Have a look at cheap 'ol Savage now
I also have 4 other rifles from different manufacturers that have nice clean chambers like the Savage, so obviously CZ is doing a poor job there with their production method. I'd have to say though the barrel is the heart of the issue as you can take either a 452 or 455 action and fit it with a high quality custom barrel such as Benchmark and you will not be able to tell any accuracy difference.
A bad chamber is killer though, see what I got from my 455. How could this ever perform well? CZ officially says these burrs are "normal and acceptable". I've seen them in 3/5 455's I've looked at with my borescope, one was so bad the burrs curled like J's and pointed back out the muzzle! There is an account of Rimfire Central though of one guy who got 3 452's with those terrible burrs in the chamber though so it's not something that's 455 exclusive.
Have a look at cheap 'ol Savage now
I also have 4 other rifles from different manufacturers that have nice clean chambers like the Savage, so obviously CZ is doing a poor job there with their production method. I'd have to say though the barrel is the heart of the issue as you can take either a 452 or 455 action and fit it with a high quality custom barrel such as Benchmark and you will not be able to tell any accuracy difference.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
.....or maybe they won't. In fact, I'm pretty certain they won't.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
In a nutshell, more people seem to be having issues with 455's performing poorly than 452's. If you explore the history on Rimfire Central's CZ forum there's nothing but good things about the 452 in the past but now 455 complaints are a regular occurrence. There seems to be two root issues with the 455 platform, loose headspace and poorly chambered barrels. Getting into the new "C" prefix serial number 455's the manufacturing tolerances may be better now in terms of the headspace, I checked one and it was 0.0445" so pretty good coming from the factory. My "B" prefix 455 was 0.048" which borders on No-Go territory. Minimum spec, a Go gauge, is 0.043". Some custom builders will take it down to 0.0405" as they feel a tight tolerance is better but production rifles must all adhere to SAAMI spec.
A bad chamber is killer though, see what I got from my 455. How could this ever perform well? CZ officially says these burrs are "normal and acceptable". I've seen them in 3/5 455's I've looked at with my borescope, one was so bad the burrs curled like J's and pointed back out the muzzle! There is an account of Rimfire Central though of one guy who got 3 452's with those terrible burrs in the chamber though so it's not something that's 455 exclusive.
Have a look at cheap 'ol Savage now
I also have 4 other rifles from different manufacturers that have nice clean chambers like the Savage, so obviously CZ is doing a poor job there with their production method. I'd have to say though the barrel is the heart of the issue as you can take either a 452 or 455 action and fit it with a high quality custom barrel such as Benchmark and you will not be able to tell any accuracy difference.
Interesting. Wish I had a borescope.
Well, I'm off to the basement to stare down a .17 barrel and fret.....
A longer custom barrel was in the back of my mind when I got the 455 anyway. Fingers crossed that this one isn't a dog.....
Thanks to those of you that have made helpful, non-####, posts so far.
GGG
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
I had 2 455's sold them both and have 3 452's. They feel better and at least my experience the 452's are more accurate. The 455 fs sure had beautiful wood after I refinished it though
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Haha - will do. Already have a couple of yours!!!
My savage really likes the hornady, and I have a bunch of it, so fingers crossed!!
Sometimes.... you don't wanna know whats in yer barrel... lol Yeah a borescope won't fix an issue but can help you decide to throw in the towel on a lost cause. Or it's useful in determining if your cleaning method really works (it probably doesn't
) I'm of a mind where I just HAD to know what was going on in that CZ barrel.Since you got a .17, it's more apt to be able to burn off minor burrs during break in like a centerfire. Ammo quality will be your real nemesis though as the gentleman in this thread post #54 shooting over a chronograph with a Lilja .17 barrel will tell you
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=809081&page=4
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Anyone interested in a 452 varmit......i have two.....can only shoot one.
Correct installation is quite simple if the barrel retention screws are torqued to 30 to 35 inch pounds. Unfortunately, that doesn't guarantee accuracy because of the reasons outlined by RabidM4U5.
Over on RFC the anodyne consensus is that both models shoot equally well. That may be true quite often, but not often enough that, as Rabid notes, there are more complaints about the 455 than the 452. I bought my first CZ in 2014, a 455 American. It didn't shoot well until the barrel was changed and it was pillared and bedded. My next CZ was a 452 American and it shoots very well indeed, although that in itself doesn't prove the case for or against either model. I still have it and won't give it up. I've had three other CZ's, two 453's, which shot very well and a 455 Varmint which met CZ's minimum expectation of shooting at least 2 MOA at 50 yards, although it often shot better. When I buy another CZ it will be either a 452 or a 453 (the latter is the model with the single set trigger and fixed barrel like the 452).
The 455s are pretty good guns but I will never buy another one. I had 2 and they wouldn't shoot as well as my 452s until the action got epoxy bedded (on both of them). Not saying there aren't lemons among the 452s but, IMO, if you are buying a new rifle, you have a better chance to get a great shooting 452 than a 455.
K
K
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Interesting. Thx for the info guys.
Maybe my 455 will be my first foray into bedding......bedding guns i mean, i have a daughter.
Lol
GGG
Maybe my 455 will be my first foray into bedding......bedding guns i mean, i have a daughter.
Lol
GGG
My 455 was piller beded and out shot my 452 varmint.I was able to do the half inch challenge with a bone stock 452 [yo dave spring] but the groups were usually larger than the 455.Both liked SK,Lapua ammo.
I always wondered about the barrel lug screw on the 452.My 452 also shot best around 21 inch lbs any tighter and the groups would open up.Every rifle is a bit different.
I always wondered about the barrel lug screw on the 452.My 452 also shot best around 21 inch lbs any tighter and the groups would open up.Every rifle is a bit different.
I have one of each also, a 455 American and a 452 Varmint. The 452, other than a lighter trigger spring and a striker reshape, is bone stock. The 455 has pillars, epoxy bedding, lighter trigger, and finally a striker reshape. After all that, it does shoot better than original, but not as well as the 452.
Having said that, they ARE two different rifles, not apples to apples.
This target was shot on the same day, same ammo, same shooter at 50 yds. The top row is 452, bottom is 455. The 4th group with the 452 is all about me.. It's what happens when you get excited and forget how to shoot .. my bad. Both rifles throw a flyer on the first shot out of a cold barrel, those are seen in the first group shot with each rifle.
All that's keeping the 455 in my safe right now is a gorgeous tiger striped walnut stock. I doubt I'll ever sell it for that reason alone. It's a good shooter in its own right, but not in the same sense as the 452 Varmint.
Neither rifle has given me a lick of trouble, both function flawlessly and are well made. Anyone other than a paper punching accuracy junkie like me would be thrilled to have either one.
Great rifles for the money if you ask me.
Having said that, they ARE two different rifles, not apples to apples.
This target was shot on the same day, same ammo, same shooter at 50 yds. The top row is 452, bottom is 455. The 4th group with the 452 is all about me.. It's what happens when you get excited and forget how to shoot .. my bad. Both rifles throw a flyer on the first shot out of a cold barrel, those are seen in the first group shot with each rifle.
All that's keeping the 455 in my safe right now is a gorgeous tiger striped walnut stock. I doubt I'll ever sell it for that reason alone. It's a good shooter in its own right, but not in the same sense as the 452 Varmint.
Neither rifle has given me a lick of trouble, both function flawlessly and are well made. Anyone other than a paper punching accuracy junkie like me would be thrilled to have either one.
Great rifles for the money if you ask me.
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