KAC SR-15 or DD M4?

[Kidd X]

No.

Just No.

You do remind me of TDC, after I read his posts.

There re many of ways to get to the same place, KAC offers that for a DI, that functions extremely well in

Longevity.
Reliability.
Performance.
Durability.

SR 15/16 functions very well suppressed.
High round counts.
FA
Its very light overall.
Beyond Milspec.

They have improved that gun over the years and turned it into a true gem.


Just go out and get one! Or at least get one for TDC.

How much full auto or suppressed shooting does the average Canadian do?? Mag dumps are far from the norm either.

Nope.

It doesn't do anything for me (or them) to list who we are servicing.

But I'll say this. The SR-15 and the SR-25 is the same animal, built to the same standards, just a different caliber.

Obviously you can't say who(dumb me). Can you say how many agencies are using them or a rough number count on rifles? The SR25 is built for an entirely different purpose and not a fair comparison.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

KAC

Buy once cry once.

 

[Stoner99]

How much full auto or suppressed shooting does the average Canadian do?? Mag dumps are far from the norm either.

If that is the case then a Norc or DPMS should suit your needs. So what is the point of this thread.

DD does alot of the same things very well, KAC does them better and it cost more. So end of discussion.

You loose Kidd. Fun thread though.

 

[Horse96]

I am just curious. What makes the KAC so great? It sounds like it has some cool features, something about the bolt that makes it a bit different and reliable. And that is a good thing. Overbuild it and etc works great for dependability. But it's barrel is chrome lined. Which is great if the rifle is going to see full auto fire, but not the best for accuracy; FN seems to be the exception in this. But, just my opinion, if I was going to spend a bunch on a rifle, I would want one that is bughole accurate.

The JP-15 comes in very pricey as well, but has many more features than a KAC. You get a thermal dissipator (heat sink), match barrel, side charging (don't know if it's cool or just different), 2lb trigger, and so on. And it will shoot bug holes. Also, the heat sink, from what I have read, has shown itself to work better than chrome lining, espeically in regard to throat erosion from long and hot shooting strings.

I know a military doesn't shoot it, but that's probably because it is so expensive. Most government contracts choose the cheapest rifle and I understand special ops may have a bigger budget, but I am guessing that their budget doesn't allow as much room as a JP would cost.

Does the JP just not appeal to some types because it's a 'gamer gun?' But it should. A gamer gun must be reliable, accurate, and handle well. All attributes any shooter would or should desire. Gamer guns are also made for quick reloading and etc. More great attributes. If the adjustable gas block turns you off, just leave it at full open. No issues.

Just a ramble from a guy that doesn't understand why certain people dislike 'gamer guns' as opposed to 'soldiers carry this gun'.

Here's an article: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2014/6/17/jp-enterprises-jp-15/

 

[Stoner99]

Horse96. Google and you can find a few test that have already been memtioned here that are the reasons why KAC cost as much as they do. Its not rocket science.

Opinions are like #######s...Everyones got one. Lol.

Facts and data are behind KAC. You get what you pay for.

 

[bongoz]

I am just curious. What makes the KAC so great? It sounds like it has some cool features, something about the bolt that makes it a bit different and reliable. And that is a good thing. Overbuild it and etc works great for dependability. But it's barrel is chrome lined. Which is great if the rifle is going to see full auto fire, but not the best for accuracy; FN seems to be the exception in this. But, just my opinion, if I was going to spend a bunch on a rifle, I would want one that is bughole accurate.

The JP-15 comes in very pricey as well, but has many more features than a KAC. You get a thermal dissipator (heat sink), match barrel, side charging (don't know if it's cool or just different), 2lb trigger, and so on. And it will shoot bug holes. Also, the heat sink, from what I have read, has shown itself to work better than chrome lining, espeically in regard to throat erosion from long and hot shooting strings.

I know a military doesn't shoot it, but that's probably because it is so expensive. Most government contracts choose the cheapest rifle and I understand special ops may have a bigger budget, but I am guessing that their budget doesn't allow as much room as a JP would cost.

Does the JP just not appeal to some types because it's a 'gamer gun?' But it should. A gamer gun must be reliable, accurate, and handle well. All attributes any shooter would or should desire. Gamer guns are also made for quick reloading and etc. More great attributes. If the adjustable gas block turns you off, just leave it at full open. No issues.

Just a ramble from a guy that doesn't understand why certain people dislike 'gamer guns' as opposed to 'soldiers carry this gun'.

Here's an article: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2014/6/17/jp-enterprises-jp-15/

Gamer guns tend to be built to tighter tolerances from what I understand. Good for competition and accuracy but not good when your in a battlefield with dirt and mud.

Gamer rifle is just as it sounds. Good for competition/shooting games but I wouldn't trust my life to it.

 

[Horse96]

Gamer guns tend to be built to tighter tolerances from what I understand. Good for competition and accuracy but not good when your in a battlefield with dirt and mud.

Gamer rifle is just as it sounds. Good for competition/shooting games but I wouldn't trust my life to it.

Okay. I hear what you're saying. But, that review that I posted stated that the author had about 20,000 rounds through it. And it was ammo of all types, from cheap practice handloads all the way through to match ammo (like Marcus Latrel would have used in his 'gamer-like' gun) through to cheap federal American Eagle. The author reported one misfire. Also, he borescoped the throat and saw little erosion due to the heat sink.

 

[Still alive]

Okay. I hear what you're saying. But, that review that I posted stated that the author had about 20,000 rounds through it. And it was ammo of all types, from cheap practice handloads all the way through to match ammo (like Marcus Latrel would have used in his 'gamer-like' gun) through to cheap federal American Eagle. The author reported one misfire. Also, he borescoped the throat and saw little erosion due to the heat sink.

I guess a similar analogy would be:
Would you take a 24hr LeMans race car as your 100% reliable daily driver?
The JP would be your race car and the KAC, DD would be the 100% reliable daily driver. Just that the KAC comes with Nav, sunroof and optional Sport Package.

 

[Horse96]

I guess a similar analogy would be:
Would you take a 24hr LeMans race car as your 100% reliable daily driver?
The JP would be your race car and the KAC, DD would be the 100% reliable daily driver. Just that the KAC comes with Nav, sunroof and optional Sport Package.

Haha. Yeah, but there are units that do trust their lives with rifles like a JP. The Crane MK 12 mod 0 is pretty much the template for a modern 3 gun rifle. Especially since the Crane has a Douglas match barrel, or tight tolerances.

http://www.precisionreflex.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=Mark12 Mod 0 SPR

 

[Farmboy]

Ignoring the rifles for a second, does JP have the production facility to handle a multimillion dollar contract?

Could JP sustain the upfront and ongoing cost of trial rifles

Does JP have the capital to purchase raw material, produce thousands of rifles and wait a few months after delivery to get paid?

Can JP support the entire product line? For example replaceable pic rail systems, night vision, sights, mags, cleaning kits, pouches etc.


Now a quick point about the rifles, you're suggesting the JP, but did you realize if the military purchased JP's, even being an AR platform they would have to change all their training programs due to having the side charging handle.


I'm not going to touch on rifle features or comparison because we've been over that already.

 

[Horse96]

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. As a civilian, and excuse me if I come across short, but it's not a concern to me. I just want to spend my money, and if I'm spending more than $3k, on a rifle that shoots. My point was that people or civilians, overlook great rifles just because they're viewed as 'gamer guns' when the requirements of a gamer gun is accuracy and dependability. Things that, for me, have great appeal as a civilian shooter.

I don't want to buy stuff because it's government approved because government requirements do not match with mine.

But for civilians that want to buy government approved and that floats their boat, rock on. There is nothing wrong with that. Again, if a guy is going to spend over $3k it's just nice to point out other options that may have been overlooked.

 

[Farmboy]

As a civilian, and excuse me if I come across short, but it's not a concern to me.

You have alluded to the presumption that the military would be better served with JP vs KAC. I simply answered a few points not considered, as to why they wouldn't.

I know a military doesn't shoot it, but that's probably because it is so expensive. Most government contracts choose the cheapest rifle and I understand special ops may have a bigger budget, but I am guessing that their budget doesn't allow as much room as a JP would cost.

Also Crane is a gov. entity, not a private company.

Yeah, but there are units that do trust their lives with rifles like a JP.

 

[Horse96]

Yeah, no problem. I alluded to those facts, but my main point is as stated. A similar argument for bolt guns applies. Most guys run out and buy trued rem 700's because that's what trained snipers use. But Chris Kyle bought a GA Precision bolt gun for his personal use.

 

[Stoner99]

Yeah, no problem. I alluded to those facts, but my main point is as stated. A similar argument for bolt guns applies. Most guys run out and buy trued rem 700's because that's what trained snipers use. But Chris Kyle bought a GA Precision bolt gun for his personal use.

Chris Kyle. Lol.

Oh you civilians.


Why dont you try and argue for KAC first before arguing against it.
There are so many fallacies with the arguments you make. You ignore all data and facts given by the other side.

At some point reason and rational thought must be applied.

 

[kthomas]

Chris Kyle. Lol.

Oh you civilians.


Why dont you try and argue for KAC first before arguing against it.
There are so many fallacies with the arguments you make. You ignore all data and facts given by the other side.

At some point reason and rational thought must be applied.

CGN = Canadian version of arfcom.

 

[Horse96]

Chris Kyle. Lol.

Oh you civilians.


Why dont you try and argue for KAC first before arguing against it.
There are so many fallacies with the arguments you make. You ignore all data and facts given by the other side.

At some point reason and rational thought must be applied.

Thanks for the laugh. Lol. I am not sure which fallacy I've applied. Ad hominem? Straw man fallacy? Fallacy of equivocation?

The sr15 is a high end ar. No doubt the components are top shelf. But it still only manages 2-3 moa. For a $3,000+ rifle that, for me, is not acceptable. For an ar at that price, with match ammo a solid 1 moa would be great. Any way, the op asked for opinions between two solid rifles, and my rational argument has been for a third choice, given the price level.

https://youtu.be/RMyh7gvIYDg

https://youtu.be/b5lWYNWnPyg

 

[beltfed]

...The sr15 is a high end ar. No doubt the components are top shelf. But it still only manages 2-3 moa. For a $3,000+ rifle that, for me, is not acceptable.

2-3 moa? Mine is easily half that - with a 16" light weight barrel to boot. Where are you pulling these stats from?

 

[Stoner99]

Thanks for the laugh. Lol. I am not sure which fallacy I've applied. Ad hominem? Straw man fallacy? Fallacy of equivocation?

The sr15 is a high end ar. No doubt the components are top shelf. But it still only manages 2-3 moa. For a $3,000+ rifle that, for me, is not acceptable. For an ar at that price, with match ammo a solid 1 moa would be great. Any way, the op asked for opinions between two solid rifles, and my rational argument has been for a third choice, given the price level.

https://youtu.be/RMyh7gvIYDg

https://youtu.be/b5lWYNWnPyg

By God man. That review by nutnfancy is completely out to lunch on so many levels I can't even begin to start. All name one or two points though : 1. Old rifle 2008 model or earlier. 2. No history on how that gun was used before or the current round count.


You have no idea what you are writing about.

Conclusion will be as follows.

No unit will be buying a JP anytime soon in considerable numbers because JP simply cannot do that.. They are a boutique rifle company that from what I see doesn't even make the entire gun like KAC basically does. This is a joke right?
I hope so.

 

[mikethebike]

please let us not use nutnfancy on anything related to firearms reviews

the retard is strong with that one

as far as using competition guns in the field? I think the ross rifle thought us all not to do that.

 

[Horse96]

please let us not use nutnfancy on anything related to firearms reviews

the retard is strong with that one

as far as using competition guns in the field? I think the ross rifle thought us all not to do that.

I missed what the Ross rifle taught us not to do.

The second link is a former marine, I believe, touring the JP plant. He also has a 3 series video torture testing the JP. Anyway, I didn't say an army needs to field it to be a good buy, lol. And maybe it was a couple of posts back, but the mk 12 mod 0 is fielded and the real difference between a gamer gun and a mk 12 mod 0 is, well, nothing.

And someone mentioned fallacies? Saying nutnfancy is a retard and ignoring the data he collects, is an ad hominem fallacy. Anyway, this post has been fun, but I'm signing off.

Good luck with your purchase OP. If you can't decide, buy both!

Here's part 3 of the torture test, sort of a summary

https://youtu.be/Q664pVPHZmU