nomad 68
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Glad I read this thread. Planning on shipping a rifle out for a rebarrel after New Years. Up until I read through this , I was going .280AI. I think that it's going to be good ole .280 rem now.
to Ackley Improve or not
- Thread starter quaticman
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Good move.
The 338 Win Mag is a classic example of a cartridge which gains virtually nothing from any "improvement". The case already features only slight body taper and a fairly sharp shoulder. If the standard cartridge will drive a given bullet at 2800, the AI version would likely manage 2815. The only way to produce a significant velocity increase is a significant increase in case capacity.
Only if a an extry 100fps means nothing to you.
Especially in a 280AI...Where a fella can tickle 7 Rem velocities, without much fuss.
Can't really see a downside.
But according to the "advice" on this thread, the poor fellow should be jumping straight to a 7 Ultra Mag.
R.
The 280ai might just be the only one that is more popular than the original. Starting to see more rifles chambered ai than .280 rem. Same thing with dies. And the standard .280 is pretty much a reloaders cartridge anyway....I think the ai is the better choice here.
Keep in mind, at the same pressures (and there is no reason the standard cannot be loaded the same as the AI), that 100 fps is more like 40. I have to add, all of the case "stretching" appears to be a result of the sizing operation and not from firing. If unsized, any case, regardless of configuration, can be fired repeatedly with no significant lengthening. This providing there is no shortcoming in the rifle design which promotes stretching of the brass. I have tested this several times, using several different chamberings. The 303 British, for instance (sloping shoulder, plenty o' taper) stretches not at all with multiple firings (fifteen) if the rifle is a rigid, front-locker. Nonetheless, the sharp-shouldered cases do seem to grow less during the full-length sizing operation. Testing to determine the reasons behind this is incomplete.
As I consider rebarreling/rechambering again and again I cannot escape the logic of spending almost the same money on a whole rifle in the appropriate chambering. Oddball chamberings have very little value to the average shooter too. Getting the fastest velocity with chosen bullet weight is easy. Buy rifle with most powerful chambering in chosen bore, load with as much "safe burn rate" powder as you dare, with longest barrel you can carry, launch. It's not some great achievement to get a 308 pushed HARD, to shoot like any 300WM. Building "Rube Goldberg" rifles because they are fun is the same as a 150mph F350 4x4. Big boys toys are fun, but let's not pretend they are really the most efficient way to accomplish a task.
Leeper beat me to it. I have used the 280AI more than a little, also the 280. 50 fps is about it.
As cartridges go that show a tangible improvement by Ackleyfying, it's not one of 'em.
It's a guy wants to load it extra hot, maybe you can get close to a 7 Rem. But at similar pressures you're looking at 100-150 feet a second difference.
As cartridges go that show a tangible improvement by Ackleyfying, it's not one of 'em.
It's a guy wants to load it extra hot, maybe you can get close to a 7 Rem. But at similar pressures you're looking at 100-150 feet a second difference.
prairie lover
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Nosler load data shows some good speeds with the 280ai
Nosler's 280AI data from my experience is very good data; dead on what the 280AI I spent the most time with gave. A 24" 9 twist Pac Nor SS, it was good for 2950 with 160s (7828) and would just get to 3050 with 150s (H3831). The 150 TTSX at 3050 was my standard load.
3150 was comfortable with 140s and H4831, I could get 3200 with RL22 but it was squirrelly for point of impact in the cold.
With 120s and H4350, the B Tip clocked 3370 and the V-Max with its less bearing surface would hit 3400. The Barnes' were in the middle.
I tried other powders but those are what worked the best in that particular barrel.
Nice velocities, but as mentioned earlier that's only roughly 50fps more than what I get with my present 280. It also happens to be 9 twist, SS Pac Nor. 23" in this one.
Nosler's 280 normal data is a bit tricky, they load to lower pressure's, but they use a 26" barrel.
3150 was comfortable with 140s and H4831, I could get 3200 with RL22 but it was squirrelly for point of impact in the cold.
With 120s and H4350, the B Tip clocked 3370 and the V-Max with its less bearing surface would hit 3400. The Barnes' were in the middle.
I tried other powders but those are what worked the best in that particular barrel.
Nice velocities, but as mentioned earlier that's only roughly 50fps more than what I get with my present 280. It also happens to be 9 twist, SS Pac Nor. 23" in this one.
Nosler's 280 normal data is a bit tricky, they load to lower pressure's, but they use a 26" barrel.
Making a wildcat out of a perfectly good rifle has some drawbacks...I am reminded of people who were going hunting with a couple .280 AI rifles up the Alaska Highway 1200 miles from home...who forgot their ammo and there was NO WAY in heck they could find anything they could use. They ended up going back into Fort Nelson to buy a new 30/06 and some ammo each.
If you want more rifle forget the AI approach and go 243 Winchester, as you are likely to be able to find some of that anywhere.
If you want more rifle forget the AI approach and go 243 Winchester, as you are likely to be able to find some of that anywhere.
They could have just used 280 factory ammo if it was available- but not something you might find past Ft Nelson easily.
The real fix for that is the same as for anything- dont' forget your ammo!
The 280AI is pretty popular, but if you are going to AI you are going to handload, so you can load it to higher pressure than factory 280 anyway - 65 000PSI like the 270 rather than the standard 280 pressure of 60 000
my favorite 280 AI is still the 7RM though.
In a nutshell...
Is that the same as saying a favourite 30-06 should be a 300WM?
Cause it kinda looks that way!
R.
For the record, Nosler makes 280AI brass...no need to fireform, although I still can't figure out why that's a problem for fellows?
Going to a lighter bullet is always one of the easier ways to make more speed, should it be deemed necessary!
R.
Is that the same as saying a favourite 30-06 should be a 300WM?
Cause it kinda looks that way!
R.
No... it means before I Improve a .30/06, I will buy a .300 WM.
But why on earth would I improve a .30/06... works pretty good as is. I love it when guys "Improve" a chamber and then shoot it with max loads for the original chambering with cup and core bullets... what a hoot!
280 AI is rapidly becoming the exception as it has largely become "standardized." It is being chambered by several firearms manufacturers and brass and ammunituon is commercially available... IMO, it doesn't belong in this conversation, and neither do any others that become "standardized."
If there is commercially available rifles, components and ammunition, there is little argument against choosing it over a .308 or .30/06 et al... other than the "milk sop" cry of "ammunition availablility."
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