cyq P38 pistols

joe n

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I know these are seldom the favourite of collectors, for various reasons. But I have always loved them, for their crude mechanical finish during late war assembly. When I find them for a fair price, I usually pick them up. This one is a December 1944 manufacture, all matching and original, cog hammer and rough tooling marks. What I find very interesting is the coarse finish and the casting flaws on the frame. Earlier these would end up in the reject bin, but as the Russians pounded on the door of the factory, the bin was revisited and what was at once time rejected was now pressed into service. Thanks for looking.





 
Thanks boys, pretty plain Jane I know. Just digging through things today and thought I'd share. Happy New Year
 
Just because they are common does not mean they can't be liked. I also have couple of CYQs, this matching rig is from Oct 1943.

VGDc.jpg
 
I have collected holsters for years. At one time you could go to any gun show and find excellent ww2 p38
holsters.
 
"What I find very interesting is the coarse finish and the casting flaws on the frame." joe n, I must point out a FLAW in your posting. P.38 produced during World War Two did NOT have casted frames! The flaw shown is most likely due to a bad forging.
 
Of course, thanks for the clarification, meaning the process of forging. But you know what I meant :)
"What I find very interesting is the coarse finish and the casting flaws on the frame." joe n, I must point out a FLAW in your posting. P.38 produced during World War Two did NOT have casted frames! The flaw shown is most likely due to a bad forging.
 
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I have a vet bringback, all matching CYQ (late '44 production), and I like it for a lot of the same reasons. Kind of symbolic of the turn of events for Germany at the time.

Still a surprisingly good shooter. The internals are all very well made and smooth. They put the effort in where it counted, even if they let the fit and finish slide a bit.
 
Very well said! I sold one in the Z block, it's floating around here somewhere. Just love the rough tooling.

I have a vet bringback, all matching CYQ (late '44 production), and I like it for a lot of the same reasons. Kind of symbolic of the turn of events for Germany at the time.

Still a surprisingly good shooter. The internals are all very well made and smooth. They put the effort in where it counted, even if they let the fit and finish slide a bit.
 
‘f’ block cyq P.38 manufactured in August 1943 in a 1943 dated ‘fkx’coded softshell holster (WaA869) with a very unusual P.38 marking. (Gustav Sudbrack, Lederwaren-u. Gamaschen-fabrik, Bielefeld, N-W)












Page 58 in Whittington's book regarding these holster markings.






This Spreewerk Production Chart may be of interest to some collectors.



Some other stuff that might be of interest.



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E over 88 marked magazines.
It is my opinion that no magazine production ever took place at Spreewerk Grottau or Spreewerk Kratzau.
Spreewerk was never set up for or intended to be in the business of manufacturing magazines. Unlike the experienced and self sufficient arms manufacturers such as Walther and Mauser, that manufactured all parts and components for their pistols, Spreewerk was a satellite facility for wartime pistol manufacture only. So other than the first few magazines brought by Walther, ENM was most likely the only manufacturer of magazines for the Spreewerk pistols.
It is also my opinion that the E/88 inspector served both factories until he was replaced at the ENM factory by the E/WaA706 inspector.

The code jvd was assigned prior to that as evidenced by the mags marked both jvd and E/88.
Since some jvd marked mags are also marked E/88 we cannot assume the E/88 stamp indicates Spreewerk manufacture Just as we cannot assume anything from the shape of the welds since round, oval, rectangular, and elongated all appear on these magazines.

Therefore it is a bit of a misnomer to use the description "Spreewerk" magazine for these mags marked E/88 with no other markings as this implies these were manufactured by Spreewerk. This has never been proven. They were intended for and issued with Spreewerk pistols but I suggest that since these early E/88 mags do not carry a factory code that we stick with calling them "E/88" magazines as some collectors already do.

I would like to thank the following individuals that contributed information and photos for this research and
presentation:

Jan Balcar Leon DeSpain Marc Mandro
Dennis Johnson (DJ) Dennis de Vlieger Mark Castel
Malcolm Saxon Per Mathisen Dave Shike

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Very nice! Thank you for showing! The holsters are every bit as collectable as the pistols. Nice rig for sure.
 
Thanks Jeremy, cheaper than k98s lol

lol. That they are. I really should get a byf44 to go with my K98k's. Almost bought one a while back but unfortunately my truck decided it didn't like it's transmission any more and wanted a new one at the same time it came up for sale. Need to drive to make more money, so priorities.....
 
So true! Take care Jeremy
UOTE=jbmauser;13336219]lol. That they are. I really should get a byf44 to go with my K98k's. Almost bought one a while back but unfortunately my truck decided it didn't like it's transmission any more and wanted a new one at the same time it came up for sale. Need to drive to make more money, so priorities.....[/QUOTE]
 
Nice chatting with you Joe----last time was back in 2005.
More P.38 stuff.

This would be a good holster for a late war P.38.




The holster is dated “44” which is 1944. (The second 4 is very faintly visible)
This is a somewhat rare date for a” hard shell “holster as the manufacturing of the
“soft shell” holster model had taken over by that time.



“gmo” is the code for Rahm&Kampmann
Lederwarenfabriken, Werk
Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz
WaA 204 is their WaA number

“4” is clearly stamped on the rear. (The second 4 is faintly visible)
The acceptance stamped Eagle is visible, with a faint WaA 20 showing (4 of the WaA 204 is not visible). The” P.38 “stamp is clearly visible. There are RBNr numbers for (“Reichs-Betriebs-Nr”) above and partially covered by the front belt loop. .“0/0655/0013”

The first number stands for the kind of plant (O is industrial)
Number 2-5 stands for the district.
Number 6-9 stands for the name of the plant.
All German plants received such a number late in WW2, and it seems this code should replace the one to three letter codes.
However, the war was over before this change was finished, so both kinds of codes can be found on most kinds of military items.

Both the WaA code and RBNr numbers are not often found together on 44 dated hard shell P.38 holsters.

 
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