Sudden Accuracy Drop on a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine

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cz858lover

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I bought a lightly used Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine from a friend. on my first range trip, after sighting in the scope, I was shooting under 1" groupings at 100 yards.

On my next range trip it was slightly worse but still very much acceptable. On the 3rd trip it was so terrible I went home in frustration and inspected the rifle. Upon inspection I noticed the scope rings had come loose. I re-tightened them and applied some lock tight and went back to the range a few days later to test it out. The accuracy did improve after tightening the scope mount but it never returned to the accuracy that I got on my initial range trip after buying this rifle.

I was shooting the same ammo and under similar circumstances.

Can anyone maybe shed some light on why the accuracy has suddenly dropped? Thanks!
 
kawicrash said:
Did you clean it between sessions? Some rifles like to be a little dirty, some like to be clean.
Any possibility you damaged the crown?
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I usually run a bore snake through it after every shooting session with hoppe's #9. After a few sessions I will give it the wipeout treatment to remove copper fouling's. It has a muzzle break on it so I am not sure about the condition of the crown. I have no reason to believe it would have been damaged between shooting sessions though.

I was shooting hornady match ammo on every shooting sessions.
 
Check all screws including the front/rear action screws and all scope screws. Then do a good cleaning job in the barrel but NOT with the snake. Do a good read on cleaning before you start. There are lots of thoughts on this. Brush/not to brush---J-B/ not J-B. YOU MUST USE A BORE GUIDE and a good quality coated rod (DEWEY), whatever method you decide to use. Go to the range and keep careful account of your groups AND number of shots fired. If you find your first 20 rounds are printing well, then as you progress they open up, your barrel wants to be very clean. If, as many of us have found, your groups get progressively tighter, your barrel likes to be dirty. BUT, keep track of the numbers. Eventually your groups may begin to open up after say, 50 rounds or more, then you'll know how much you can shoot before you need to clean. Yours isn't a hunting rifle so I'd rely more on 5 shot or 10 shot groups to prove anything out. Best of luck.
 
If your rings had become loose, possibly the base has become loose too... you did not mention it...

I would forget about using a bore snake and buy a good rod and actually clean the copper out now and then keep track of how it shoots... usually after cleaning it takes a few foulers to settle in... and you should be noting just what it does from a clean barrel... and eventually it will require a good cleaning again...
 
big boar said:
Check all screws including the front/rear action screws and all scope screws. Then do a good cleaning job in the barrel but NOT with the snake. Do a good read on cleaning before you start. There are lots of thoughts on this. Brush/not to brush---J-B/ not J-B. YOU MUST USE A BORE GUIDE and a good quality coated rod (DEWEY), whatever method you decide to use. Go to the range and keep careful account of your groups AND number of shots fired. If you find your first 20 rounds are printing well, then as you progress they open up, your barrel wants to be very clean. If, as many of us have found, your groups get progressively tighter, your barrel likes to be dirty. BUT, keep track of the numbers. Eventually your groups may begin to open up after say, 50 rounds or more, then you'll know how much you can shoot before you need to clean. Yours isn't a hunting rifle so I'd rely more on 5 shot or 10 shot groups to prove anything out. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

I've read a lot about cleaning rods damaging your bore. Do you really think you can damage your bore by a cleaning rod hitting it? I mean its forged hardened steel vs a little cleaning rod only moving against it as quickly as you can move it by hand. I really never fully bought into that my self but maybe I've been wrong
 
cz858lover said:
I've read a lot about cleaning rods damaging your bore. Do you really think you can damage your bore by a cleaning rod hitting it? I mean its forged hardened steel vs a little cleaning rod only moving against it as quickly as you can move it by hand. I really never fully bought into that my self but maybe I've been wrong
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Yup, you are definitely wrong... poor cleaning techniques can damage the bore and the crown and accuracy will be affected... not so much if your rifle doesn't shoot well to start with...
 
First thing I would do is take the action out of the stock. Sometimes people get a little generous with gun oil when wiping down their firearms. A little drop of oil between the action and bedding or action and stock can cause all kinds of accuracy problems. The will shoot like lightning (never hit the same place twice) Wipe the action and stock dry and reassemble.

Cleaning is also over rated. I know some target rifle shooters that will shoot 50+rounds a day for a week without cleaning. Others will clean every 150 rounds. I also know some F Class guys that clean every day but then fire 5 rounds to foul the barrel before starting a match.
 
I once used a certain cleaning solvent on a savage and it loosened every screw on the gun.

Check your base screws
Check your action screws
and also check the big hex one on the end of your bolt, mine always works itself loose on my savage and I notice it affects accuracy.
 
My Savage 10PC in .223 is a tack driver......but it loathes to be cleaned. If I clean it, it's 30rds to bring the groups back in tight.


Some barrels are just that way.
 
cz858lover said:
I usually run a bore snake through it after every shooting session with hoppe's #9. After a few sessions I will give it the wipeout treatment to remove copper fouling's. It has a muzzle break on it so I am not sure about the condition of the crown. I have no reason to believe it would have been damaged between shooting sessions though.

I was shooting hornady match ammo on every shooting sessions.
Click to expand...

Throw that stupid bore snake in the garbage and get some proper cleaning equipment, including a rod guide.
 
cz858lover said:
I've read a lot about cleaning rods damaging your bore. Do you really think you can damage your bore by a cleaning rod hitting it? I mean its forged hardened steel vs a little cleaning rod only moving against it as quickly as you can move it by hand. I really never fully bought into that my self but maybe I've been wrong
Click to expand...

Rifle barrels are not made from hardened steel. Some of them are quite soft.

That cleaning rod is carrying hard, gritty deposits of carbon back and forth in the bore in a non-symmetrical manner. This causes wear, typically in the first bit of the rifling due to the rod bending when it is pushed down the bore.




maynard said:
First thing I would do is take the action out of the stock. Sometimes people get a little generous with gun oil when wiping down their firearms. A little drop of oil between the action and bedding or action and stock can cause all kinds of accuracy problems. The will shoot like lightning (never hit the same place twice) Wipe the action and stock dry and reassemble.

Cleaning is also over rated. I know some target rifle shooters that will shoot 50+rounds a day for a week without cleaning. Others will clean every 150 rounds. I also know some F Class guys that clean every day but then fire 5 rounds to foul the barrel before starting a match.
Click to expand...

The Precision Carbine doesn't have bedding. It has a metal clamp that grabs on to the bottom of the action. Its kind of an odd system but it does seem to work.
 
Suputin said:
Throw that stupid bore snake in the garbage and get some proper cleaning equipment, including a rod guide.
Click to expand...

What is the problem with bore snakes? A lot of people hold them in fairly high regard? If there is a legitimate problem with them I will stop using them though.

NaughtyPilot said:
My Savage 10PC in .223 is a tack driver......but it loathes to be cleaned. If I clean it, it's 30rds to bring the groups back in tight.


Some barrels are just that way.
Click to expand...

What sort of accuracy do you get from it?
 
I was doing some load development with my Savage 10TR 20" barrel and managed to get a group of sub 1/2 MOA. As for the bore snake take a look at what companies who build accurate guns do to clean their rifles. Most I see use a bore guide.
 
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cz858lover said:
What is the problem with bore snakes? A lot of people hold them in fairly high regard? If there is a legitimate problem with them I will stop using them though.
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Nobody who knows anything about cleaning a rifle holds the bore snake in anything but contempt. You don't see Benchrest shooters using them do you?

The problem with a bore snake is that the thing drags carbon dirt and fouling through the barrel with every pass. Its like using a single cleaning patch over and over again. It is also impossible to see how clean or not the bbl is. And then there is always the possibility of snapping the cord and getting it stuck in the bore .... which is a big problem to solve.
 
I just love my .308 Precision Carbine! One clean hole at 100 yards. It was scary when I first discovered this.
After a good break-in period, the micropolishing smoothes out the lands and grooves. Any powder and copper fouling is then minimal and the cleaning is quicker. It probably doesn't need it, but I clean it anyway and give it the once-over when I'm done using any of my good shooters. I would never use a bore snake on these, its like re-using dirty patches. On other rifles though, I might use them only once, like at the range then wash and dry them before using them again.
I wouldn't use the cheap screw together sectional rods on any rifle because it gives the joints an opportunity to scratch or leave parts of itself in the rifling. A good one-piece rod and bore guide serves my purpose.
This of course is just my opinion.
 
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