New Years resolution: neck turn... But which one?
- Thread starter dastt
- Start date
My recommendation is to seriously consider why you would want to turn necks. It can be a real rabbit hole, with very little potential gain. My first question would be whether or not you have a custom reamed chamber with a tight neck. If you do, then yes it probably is a necessity to turn the necks of your brass or they are not going to fit in your gun.
If you have a factory chamber, then the need for neck turning starts to become very questionable. If you are forced to buy really bad brass, then there may be a justification. The problem is that unless your chamber has been machined with turned brass in mind, neck turning is a double edged sword. You may be able to make the thickness more uniform, but you will increase the gap between the loaded round neck, and the neck in the chamber. That often does not do good things for accuracy, and it makes life harder for the brass as it stretches more on every firing. It is also hard to turn the neck and not create a step at the shoulder which in turn causes further problems.
What type of sizing die are you using now? You may have to change it if you neck turn. And also consider with the right kind of die, you may be able to work around non uniform brass thickness without having to neck turn. That may mean buying a different die, but you avoid all the pain of neck turning.
OMG its the battling dual ron ron's
To turn or not to turn that is the question.
But then again Ron AKA shot the group below over 10 years ago and hasn't shot a better group since then worth taking another photo of.
To turn or not to turn that is the question.
But then again Ron AKA shot the group below over 10 years ago and hasn't shot a better group since then worth taking another photo of.
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I do agree that neck turning can be a lot of additional work with, sometimes, little gain. However, I feel that I have always improved the accuracy potential of my brass when I make the decision to neck turn, regardless of whether the rifle has a tight neck or not.(note: none of my rifles have a tight neck chamber.) Today, I'm actually starting a project where I'm converting a large lot of 308 win cases (Winchester head stamped) from range brass to what I hope will be precision competition class cases. My reasoning is that the cases have a large variation in neck thickness. I find that some brass (like Lapua from the same lot#) would not benefit from neck turning as much as there is usually little variation in neck thickness. The decision to go down the "rabbit hole" all depends what your objectives are. Buy your self a good tool to measure variation in case neck thickness as this will usually help with the decision.
My thoughts are that there are alternatives to neck turning, especially when dealing with the better quality brass like Lapua. So my view is to start with the best brass you can get. Next think about the issues of neck thickness variation. If you use a bushing die only to resize you push the non uniformity and runout to the ID of the neck. When you check it with a runout gauge this will make you feel good. However as soon as you seat the bullet the runout simply moves to the OD. The fact is that without neck turning you can't get rid of neck thickness induced runout. However, you can take runout out of the mix to a very large degree. The trick is to only resize 1/2 to 2/3 of the neck with a bushing die, and just kiss the ID with the expander ball to make the ID uniform for the bullet. The sized portion of the neck will have runout but will be well clear of contacting the chamber neck. The unsized portion of the neck will be about 0.001" smaller than the neck in your chamber and will essentially fit the chamber like a glove and center the cartridge in the chamber. Next, if you seat the bullet so it jams into the lands even very lightly, the front of the bullet is concentric too.
So my view is that partial neck resizing, good brass, and a seating jam can be just as good or better than neck turning. And to that end, I think money potentially spent on neck turning equipment can be better spent on brass and the best sizing dies.
OMG its the battling dual ron ron's
To turn or not to turn that is the question.
Ed, some of your posts are hilarious. This one made me laugh hard enough to get looks from the dog like WTF?
Hey TJ, good advice in my opinion. I don't disagree at all.
I am surprised that most responses regarding neck turning are weighted towards accuracy exclusively instead of making more consistent ammunition and increasing probability of every round being exactly the same. ( or as close as possible ) For myself there has been an increase in accuracy but the real gains is the confidence I have in the ammunition I've created because it's resolved a lot of variability. (A higher quality process.) The fliers occur from myself, not because of variables that I can control.
The neck equipment I've purchased has not been that expensive to determine whether neck turning is worth it, and from a process perspective, neck turning is totally worth the effort. (except when I loose fired cases while hunting
) The "rabbit hole" is up to the user. dastt will figure out for himself whether both feet or one foot is best for himself. I have the "one foot in" option and it's provided returns, both measurable and non measurable. Coming back to dastt, if you are going to pursue neck turning there are lots of options. For myself volume of brass to be turned is a determining factor.
Regards and Happy New Year to any following this thread!
Ronr
If I am reading correctly less than 500 cases...that's what I have (neck turned) for a couple of rifles here. I use the KM system here with a drill. The perk is that KM system is very modular with lots of options to order/or not order depending on your needs. Again, if there's more volume and rifle cartridges involved there are other very nice lathe type systems but this system fit the price point and experience level in my situation. I've been really happy but my only regret is not getting the holder for ergonomic improvement at the same time. That would be nice to have but for the volumes here, I can make due.
Mystic Precision is a source for ordering and terrific on the support side of things.
Regards
Ronr
