cyq P38 pistols

[can14]

Back in about 1972 Allen Lever was selling Copenhagen Police issue ex military p38 pistols. They had holsters and magazines.
I have some of them. I always wondered if they used the holsters or kept them in storage. Condition on most of them
was excellent.

 

[joe n]

David, it was very nice to reconnect! Thank you for that. And that is a VERY rare hardshell! Of all I have owned or come across over the years, I have only seen one other! Thank you for showing!

Nice chatting with you Joe----last time was back in 2005.
More P.38 stuff.

This would be a good holster for a late war P.38.




The holster is dated “44” which is 1944. (The second 4 is very faintly visible)
This is a somewhat rare date for a” hard shell “holster as the manufacturing of the
“soft shell” holster model had taken over by that time.



“gmo” is the code for Rahm&Kampmann
Lederwarenfabriken, Werk
Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz
WaA 204 is their WaA number

“4” is clearly stamped on the rear. (The second 4 is faintly visible)
The acceptance stamped Eagle is visible, with a faint WaA 20 showing (4 of the WaA 204 is not visible). The” P.38 “stamp is clearly visible. There are RBNr numbers for (“Reichs-Betriebs-Nr”) above and partially covered by the front belt loop. .“0/0655/0013”

The first number stands for the kind of plant (O is industrial)
Number 2-5 stands for the district.
Number 6-9 stands for the name of the plant.
All German plants received such a number late in WW2, and it seems this code should replace the one to three letter codes.
However, the war was over before this change was finished, so both kinds of codes can be found on most kinds of military items.

Both the WaA code and RBNr numbers are not often found together on 44 dated hard shell P.38 holsters.

 

[drm3m]

Back in 2004 Orv Reichert the (since deceased) GURU on the P.38 Forum told me to grab any 1944 dated P.38 hard shell holsters that I found as they were being phased out and replaced by the soft shell model in 1944.

On August 4 2004 I bought two 44 dated P.38 hard shell holsters--- a 1938 dated P.08 Luger with two matching magazines from the same small gun shop in Eastern Ontario.

I took his suggestion seriously which resulted in a bit of a resurrection project on this example.

“44” is clearly stamped on the rear.
The Eagle is partially visible, with no WaA204 showing. It is possible that the “o”of “gmo” is lightly stamped next to “44”.
The” P.38 “stamp is visible but is somewhat faint.



I named this holster ‘Mousie Chewed’ for the reason best explained by the ‘BEFORE’ photo shown below.



As the balance of the holster was in decent shape I decided to send it to Jerry Burney the ‘holster repair mystro’ in Colorado and ‘Mousie Chewed’ came back looking quite different.



In August 2003 I bought a Walther ac41 from the same gun shop which I returned based on Orv Reichert's recommendation--- but I kept an ac42 which I still have from a July 2003 purchase at that shop.

It was a period of learning about P.38 pistols and the various holsters and magazines. I don't go there any more-- but I still have Warren Buxton's books and two P.38s and a bunch of holsters.

 

[drm3m]

Back in 2003 F.G.S. out of Ohio were selling unissued P.38 holsters that came out of a warehouse in Ukraine or Latvia.

The holster below is marked “bml /44 WaA 23 located between the belt loops are clear but more difficult to see because of the pebbled grain leather. The P.38 is very lightly struck but is visible.

Hans Romer,Fabrik Fur Heeresausrustung, Neu-Ulm, Donau,
Bayern
(code) “bml”
This company manufactured P.38 and
P 08 holsters from 1940-1944.






They were also selling P.38 magazines.
I bought two double spine marked Walther E/359 magazines.



Those days are gone now.
F.G.S. is no longer in business----it was a good ride while it lasted.

 

[gewehr76]

Mine has mismatched locking block from walther.
I heard somwhere that walther supplied spreewerke with parts.
all other parts correct for u series 1944 September production?

 

[CanadianAR]

Mine has mismatched locking block from walther.
I heard somwhere that walther supplied spreewerke with parts.
all other parts correct for u series 1944 September production?

If the part is Walther accepted and no serial number, it could be an armourer replacement. But if it has a serial number, it's just mismatched.

 

[Military Surplus Lover]

How much would you guys say an all matching cyq in excellent shape non capture with 2 original mags and a holster would go for. I have a byf 43 Russian capture that I paid 400 for and would like to add an all matching pistol to the collection.

 

[grelmar]

How much would you guys say an all matching cyq in excellent shape non capture with 2 original mags and a holster would go for. I have a byf 43 Russian capture that I paid 400 for and would like to add an all matching pistol to the collection.

The "original mags & holster" is going to be the tough part of the order. The CYQ pistols are associated with a specific manufacture of mags that have a stamp on the lower heel, and they're not terribly common. Just getting 1 for a CYQ is a bit of a challenge. Below is a pic I found of the stamp associated with CYQ mags (not my pic)...

I say "associated" because the whole "mags that should go with CYQ P38's" is an entire topic unto itself, and I'm not going to weigh in on it one way or another. There are people who've devoted years to studying the minutiae that are far better versed on it than I am. The mags are not serialized to the pistol, so if you find one that is, most likely someone is trying to sell you some magic beans.

As for value...

If you can find a #'s matching CYQ with one "matching" mag for under $600, I would say buy it. If you search, you might beat that price by a fair bit, but given the going rate for the Russian capture mixmasters, it's driving the price up of the matching P38's with stamps intact.

 

[Military Surplus Lover]

Thanks for your info. I found a cyq at a show not sure if it had the original magazine but the guy was asking 900 and that came with the gun and holster. I love the way the p38s shoot but don't know if that's a fair price or not.

 

[grelmar]

Thanks for your info. I found a cyq at a show not sure if it had the original magazine but the guy was asking 900 and that came with the gun and holster. I love the way the p38s shoot but don't know if that's a fair price or not.

900 seems a bit stiff to me, that would make the holster around 300(ish).

You have to be really careful with the holsters. I have a hard shell holster for my P38, that's correct in all the right ways - all the right stamps on the back, correct stitching, etc. - except that it looks manufactured yesterday. It's a well made Chinese repro holster. And there are lots more fake holsters out there than real ones. Paid $20 for mine. Very easy to take a modern repro leather holster and distress it to look original. (I bought it as a place-holder until I can track down an original - helps keep the pistol from getting banged around in the safe).

Purple, among others around here, have forgotten more about the subject than I'll likely ever know.