ignition problems with my hand loads.

Efall

Efall

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Hello CGN,
i am about as green as you can get at hand loading.
i was testing out my results at the range the other day with some 9mm and 7.62x54r hand loads, 9mm worked flawlessly
but with my 7.62x54 loads about 1/10 did not fire.
the primer ignited and pushed the bullet into the rifling but left the powder discoloured and clumpy.

i am using Varget powder with cci primers in ppu brass and .311dia 150gr. jacketed ppu bullets
i loaded these using my lee classic loader, not my press.
i used the 3.1cc scoop with the kit to measure my powder

is it possible my scoop throws too light of a charge? or is there something else im missing?

any advice from the pros would be appreciated.
thanks.
 
Not sure what the case capacity of Varget in 7.62x54 is, but if it's fairly full (compressed), you may want to give magnum primers a try. I was advised - by a VERY experienced shooter/reloader - to use magnum primers to help ensure consistent ignition, especially in colder weather & with compressed loads. They've worked great, for me.

If you do try this, start with a lower powder charge for the magnum primers and work your up until you hit an accuracy node or start seeing pressure signs.

Just my $0.02...
 
zuke said:
Scoop's safer then a scale, when you learn the proper way to do it
Click to expand...

Erm... apologies, but I disagree. Scoop is as safe as a scale when used properly, but nothing beats measuring the powder charge by weight. You're dependent on how tightly it's packed into a scoop when measuring by volume, not so by weight.
 
I have a slide rule type selector for Lee scoops and it shows that the 3.1cc scoop throws 42.4 gr of Varget. The Hogdon load data site show min load of 47 and a max load of 50.5 gr of varget. looks like you are throwing too light. I would suggest getting a scale and use the 3.1 to drop a charge in the pan and trickle the rest to get your wanted load.
 
Was the brass nice and dry? One drop of water from washing/cleaning will give the described results. Let it dry for a couple of days near a heat source layed out on a towel or bake in the oven on a tray for an hour at 200.
 
Grawfr said:
Erm... apologies, but I disagree. Scoop is as safe as a scale when used properly, but nothing beats measuring the powder charge by weight. You're dependent on how tightly it's packed into a scoop when measuring by volume, not so by weight.
Click to expand...

Till the scale's knocked off the shelf or it move's a grain or 2 by itself. You can only pack so much powder into a scoop, and their made to be 10% less capacity to be on the safe side.
 
zuke said:
Till the scale's knocked off the shelf or it move's a grain or 2 by itself. You can only pack so much powder into a scoop, and their made to be 10% less capacity to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...

I use an electronic scale, and I watch the display every single time that I lift a pan of powder off of the scale, so if it changes at all, I know immediately. It takes no extra time or effort to look at the display as you remove the pan, but it verifies the zero and calibration for each powder charge.
 
There aRE A NUMBER OF CAUSES OF MISFIRES.

If the rifle shoots milsurp ammo just fine, you can rule some of these out, but I will list them for educational purposes.

Bullet seated too long. Engages the rifling, pushing the case shoulder off the chamber shoulder and cushions the firing pin blow.

Too hard primer - weak spring - short firing pin

Light load coupled with no crimp. (A light load needs a firm crimp.)

Light load and too mild a primer.


I looks to me that if you use that scoop, you should try turning down the seating die do you get some crimp and also switch to a magnum primer.
 
Barnard308 said:
Lots of great advice given to you here (scale) but it sounds to me like you got your powder wet thus making it clumpy and failing to burn.
Click to expand...

If the primer does not ignite the powder, it tends to come out clumpy. It takes heat and pressure to ignite powder. If the powder is clumpy, and the bullet is in the throat, the primer fired but did not ignite the powder. This probably because there was so much air space with a light load there was inadequate pressure.

The solution would be more powder, hotter primer,. firmer crimp.
 
iceman2 said:
I have a slide rule type selector for Lee scoops and it shows that the 3.1cc scoop throws 42.4 gr of Varget. The Hogdon load data site show min load of 47 and a max load of 50.5 gr of varget. looks like you are throwing too light. I would suggest getting a scale and use the 3.1 to drop a charge in the pan and trickle the rest to get your wanted load.
Click to expand...
...and generally the actual weight is a bit lower than what Lee says it will be so there is a good chance the actual weight is below 42.4gr. I find that "generally" I need to go up one scoop size to get Lee's published weight. A decent scale is still the best tool a reloader owns.
 
Depending on the method of using sizing lube. Sometimes if too much lube on shells may collect lube in the neck of the die after being resized. After few resizes new case scrapes leftover lube in to the throat and this lube ends up in the neck.
When powder is charged it gets contaminated by the lube in the case and can cause bad ignition and clumps of powder not being burned, as they are wet with lube.

So check if lube is used in liberal amounts. Or inspect cases after for any signs of lube inside the shell. Also inspect sizing die for lube vent restriction if its new die clean vent hole to prevent lube accumulation in the die.
 
zuke said:
Till the scale's knocked off the shelf or it move's a grain or 2 by itself. You can only pack so much powder into a scoop, and their made to be 10% less capacity to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...

A scale moving by a grain or two by itself? You must have poltergeists in your work area! If you're knocking scales (beam, digital or other) off your shelf, the problem isn't actually with the tool... :d

There's a right way to use a scale, just as there's a right way to use a scoop, Zuke.

The difference is that with the scoop, you're tied to your density conversion charts because load data is given by weight, not by volume. Converting weights to volumes so you can scoop the powder accurately just adds an extra potential cause of error, is all. You can still do it with fine results, of course: it was the standard method and the field expedient for reloading since the matchlock muskets' days, right? I just don't believe that it can be more accurate than going by weight, is all. :)
 
The best investment I made in over 47 years of reloading was a RCBS Chargemaster for speed and accuracy. No more scoops, thrown charges or straining my bifocals trying to read the pointer on the scale. Just big digital numbers and check weights to verify the scale.

Now if they only made laser guided bullets for people who drink too much coffee and have chronologically gifted eyesight.

Why do we get the best equipment in our "GoldenYears" when the targets start to get fuzzy? :bangHead:
 
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