CCI mini mag - quality control

kodiakjack

kodiakjack

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I dusted of my 10/22 recently, and have been disappointed with its performance. About 1.5 inch groups at 25
Yards. So I lightened the trigger to just under 4 pounds, polished up the action, and snugged up all the screws. That got me to about 1 inch groups at 25 yards. Still not great. Each group would have 3 holes almost touching each other, then 2 more out at an inch. I tried dynapoints, golden bullets, mini mags, and some other cheap brand. Point of impact would vary a tad, but group sizes didn't change. Not much anyway.

So today I needed the action and free floated the barrel. We'll see if that helps. But I also wondered about the ammo, and went down the YouTube rabbit hole on "match ammo". I saw folks measuring the rim thickness and weighing rounds, to group similar batches together. I figured I could do the same easily enough, and maybe pull off a tighter group.

I made a rim sizing tool by drilling a 1/4" hole in a .308 shell and using it in a caliper.







I started with the golden bullets. Rim thickness varied from 28 thou to 39 thou. There was a slightly higher number of rounds that were 32 thou, but most were evenly spread across the board. Weights ranged from 51 grains to 52.7 grains. That about what I expected from bulk ammo.

I tried the minimags next, and was very impressed. Rim thickness varied from 36 thou to just 36.5 thou... for the whole box of 100! Weights were equally impressive. Out of 100 rounds, 53 weighed in at 47.7gr, 43 weighed in at 47.8gr, and the remainder weighed in at 47.6. Very impressed.

I don't know what a similar inspection of match ammo would look like, but the consistency of those minimags
Blew me away. Worth the few bucks more I'd recon.

So when the the bedding is dry and I've got it back together, I'll go out and shoot a handful of groups to see if anything has improved. Here's to hoping!
 
Never measured a rim in my life. I load the tube on my marlin 60 and shoot into a ragged hole at 50 yards. Cz 452 does right around .5" or less without measuring anything either.
 
hometownhero said:
Never measured a rim in my life. I load the tube on my marlin 60 and shoot into a ragged hole at 50 yards. Cz 452 does right around .5" or less without measuring anything either.
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You won't find me singing praises for the 10/22. But it's what I've got. Just trying to make the best of it. Trying to draw the line between my skill and its shortcomings.
 
hometownhero said:
I had a sr22 once. 3"at 25 was the best I could do with it. Was not happy at all.
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Right? I mean, I can literally shoot tighter groups with my bow. That shouldn't happen.

I bought it as a kid. It was shiny, lol. It was fine for pop cans at 10 yards in the back yard, and it took its share of bunnies and squirrels back then, but when I'd miss a squirrel, I never gave much thought to why. Just figured I sucked. (And that was probably a factor too, but...)

We'll see what floating the barrel does. I'll try it with random handfuls of bulk first, to see if there's an improvement, then switch to some of the 5 round batches I measured to see if there's any truth to that.
 
Interesting measurements, but if your looking for tighter groups I think you need a bolt not a semi. You got decent results for a 10/22.
 
Just to satisfy your curiosity, buy a box of Lapua X-Act and weigh every cartridge, measure the rim thickness, etc.. Then do the same for 50 Golden Bullets, or MiniMags. My prediction is that you will find the X-Act to be extremely uniform in rim thickness and weight. The cheap ammo will not. The reason the cheap ammo is not, is due to a lack of quality control and precise production methods. You cannot sort that box of cheap ammo and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It will still be cheap ammo no matter how you sort it. Eley identified, I think, some 700 variables in rimfire cartridges that affect accuracy. You are only measuring a couple of them. And consider that priming is a big issue in rimfire, and accounts for a substantial amount of the power. A little extra lead does not substitute for a little less primer.

You have to build the quality in. You can't inspect it in, after the fact.
 
Good info and pics, i like the rim sizing tool.
I think the average group would be around 5/8" to
3/4" at 25 yards. Get a BX trigger and try some CCI SV ammo.
 
kodiakjack said:
Right? I mean, I can literally shoot tighter groups with my bow. That shouldn't happen.

I bought it as a kid. It was shiny, lol. It was fine for pop cans at 10 yards in the back yard, and it took its share of bunnies and squirrels back then, but when I'd miss a squirrel, I never gave much thought to why. Just figured I sucked. (And that was probably a factor too, but...)

We'll see what floating the barrel does. I'll try it with random handfuls of bulk first, to see if there's an improvement, then switch to some of the 5 round batches I measured to see if there's any truth to that.
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I am pretty sure your improvements will make a difference. The question is, is it going to be enough to meet your expectations.
Years ago I pulled out and older but barely used 10-22 deluxe sporter out of my safe after many years of not using it. At that time, it was my first 22 and I bought it brand new... It shot about 3 to 4 in at 50 yards with sk std plus. I wanted to see how much I can improve its accuracy using the standard factory components while following Rimfire Central 10-22 improvement stickies. I did the following:

polished the trigger group (got it down to 3 lbs)
installed overtravel set screw
polished and rounded off the bolt assembly
polished the action
installed a 'tuffer buffer" (there is a new non-Rugger part...)
epoxy bedded the action and installed a pillar for the action screw
free floated the factory barrel
glued the barrel into the action using (non permanent) loctite because the barrel kept drooping as I was sanding away the barrel channel in the stock
installed/epoxy bedded new scope rail (another new non-Rugger component..)
installed new scope

When i was done with it it, it would cycle target subsonic ammo 100% reliably and would shoot consistently about 1 to 1.5 in 5 shot groups at 50 yards using sk standard plus. I wanted something more accurate so I bought my first CZ.

Overall, I had fun working on the 10-22 but it didn't come close to meeting my accuracy expectations. I am sure, if I was willing to start spending money on aftermarket hardware, it would have improved things further but that wasn't my goal, I wanted to see what the gun could with its own components.

Let us know how you are progressing!

Kody
 
I'd be happy with 3/4" at 25 yards. That would meet my eyeball-of-rabbit expectations at a reasonable bunny range. We'll see.
 
Finally had a decent day off to try it out.

So, a reminder of what I'd done so far:

-DIY bolt release mod
-DIY trigger file and polish down to 3.7 pounds
-Poly recoil buffer (cut a piece out of wife's .25 sewing needle.
-Action bedded with jbweld
-Barrel free floated
-All the innards polished
-CCI minimags chosen in similar batches of weight/rim thickness.


Well... it's a little better.



Once again, shooting 5 shot groups at 25 yards. I had 2 groups at 1/2 inch, 7 groups at 3/4 inch, and 5 groups at 1 inch.


So... now what? ^That's not terrible. If they were all half inch groups I'd be happier. So what's next? What's most likely to tighten the groups even more?

Radius the bolt?
Re crown the muzzle?
Something else?

I'm ready for my next tinkering.
 
10/22 performs okay with round nose ammo (CCI MiniMags, ThunderBolts, Blazer and American Eagle) with maybe a couple outside a Minute of Gopher at 100.

CCI MiniMags HP . . . lets go with something over 6 inches at 100.

Tomorrow I will try Blazer for our 100 Meter Match. That is 60 rounds for score on two 100 yard targets.

http://cherrytwist.googlepages.com/PQFG100.pdf

While the rules say 30 minute per target, with 10/22's perhaps both targets in 20 . . . sure not going to be wasting any time.
We shoot this target with single shot (BR) rifles and are not much over 30 minutes for both targets.
 
horseman2 said:
10/22 performs okay with round nose ammo (CCI MiniMags, ThunderBolts, Blazer and American Eagle) with maybe a couple outside a Minute of Gopher at 100.

CCI MiniMags HP . . . lets go with something over 6 inches at 100.

Tomorrow I will try Blazer for our 100 Meter Match. That is 60 rounds for score on two 100 yard targets.

http://cherrytwist.googlepages.com/PQFG100.pdf

While the rules say 30 minute per target, with 10/22's perhaps both targets in 20 . . . sure not going to be wasting any time.
We shoot this target with single shot (BR) rifles and are not much over 30 minutes for both targets.
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So just to clarify, you're getting 6moa groups with cci 36gr mini mag hollow points?
 
So just to clarify, you're getting 6moa groups with cci 36gr mini mag hollow points?

That is Right. The groupings were about 6" high and 3" wide . . . that would leave a lot of breeding pairs of gophers . . . not a MoG by any stretch of the imagination.
And the HP's are just about double the size of groups fired from my CZ455 American versus MiniMags round nose.
 
horseman2 said:
So just to clarify, you're getting 6moa groups with cci 36gr mini mag hollow points?

That is Right. The groupings were about 6" high and 3" wide . . . that would leave a lot of breeding pairs of gophers . . . not a MoG by any stretch of the imagination.
And the HP's are just about double the size of groups fired from my CZ455 American versus MiniMags round nose.
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Interesting. And damn it.

The groups I got today were with 36gr mini mag hp. I had a box of 40gr in my bag I didn't touch. Damn it. Why didn't I try them? When am I going to find another 12 degree day in January lol! Ugh.

Anyway, what steps have you taken to accurize your 10/22? What's your normal group size with the round nosers?
 
Don't mean to burst your bubble but what your getting is about all you can expect from the stock rifle. Checkout rimfire central. Open up your wallet buy a kidd barrel --- kidd trigger---kidd bolt---etc. Put about $1500 into it & it will shoot as good as a stock cz-452 with good ammo.......trust me--------lots of people can attest to this!
 
snooker said:
Don't mean to burst your bubble but what your getting is about all you can expect from the stock rifle. Checkout rimfire central. Open up your wallet buy a kidd barrel --- kidd trigger---kidd bolt---etc. Put about $1500 into it & it will shoot as good as a stock cz-452 with good ammo.......trust me--------lots of people can attest to this!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear you. If I ever need a more accurate gun, I'll pick up something else.

This little endeavor isn't about accuracy, so much as it's about making the most of what I've got. A new, more accurate .22 isn't in the budget, and neither is a fancy barrel or trigger group. I can buy a lot of diapers for the price of a kidd bolt. (Hey maybe that's where the name comes from. Folks can say they spent their tax return on their "Kidd" and not feel guilty!)

Everything on this is stock, with the exception of the knitting needle bolt buffer. I just want to see what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of it with stock parts and DIY labour.
 
I know a lot of folks radius the bolt. Is that meant to benefit accuracy? Or reliability when cycling? (Or both) Or to aid aid in firing less robust rounds like sub sonics.
 
Its meant to increase reliability, your polishing it up, allowing the hammer a faster more smooth cycle. All your improvements will benefit your rifle, but your probably there accuracy wise. I'd just shoot it & enjoy it for what it is.
 
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