A fun little mystery involving a possible trench gun with a bonus winchester 1894

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A family member told me that he had some old firearms stored in his attic. This is some of what came out. The other things are a hacked up sporterized lee enfield and a winchester model 70 pre 64. Sadly a number of these have a number electropenciled into their receivers. The trench gun avoided this but the 1894 did not. Knowing that trench guns are often faked I went into this quite skeptical. He is considering possibly selling depending on value, but value is much easier for me to determine than authenticity. The trench's stock has been badly chipped at some point and the butt plate is very much absent. I've noted that the 1894's wood has been very poorly redone at some point. It also seems they got carried away and coated the outside of the barrel with something. The bore actually isn't too bad, it does have some pitting but I'm unsure of if the defects are due to rust or just how rifling looked in that day and age. The rifling is very much present and the action is buttery smooth. I do realize that the 1894 isn't likely milsurp, but I figured you guys have the greatest knowledge base I've seen and would appreciate it. I also have done some of my own research on date of manufacture and such, but as I do not possess proper reference books I just don't trust the internet resources as much.

It's been quite a while since I posted pictures so expect some teething issues.

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Here are some bonus shots of the 1894.















 
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I don't believe either one is a surplus firearm.

The trench gun should have a flaming bomb on the left side of the receiver and a US marking if it was military. That it doesn't suggests to me that its a reproduction made from parts.

The 1894 (as far as I can tell) was never issued to US forces in any calibre, and certainly not in 38-55. The Model 1895 was issued to troops in the Philippines for trials, but was disliked because that particular model had no charger (stripper clip) guide and the military Governor General Arthur MacArthur (father of the famous WWII general) said that it took forever to reload the magazine.
 
The 1894 isn't suspected of being surplus, it was just something I thought I'd share. Now the serial number for that trench gun puts it into the serial number range for the first world war. According to my blue book of gun values that means unless it was rolled into the inventory for the second world war, it wasn't typically military marked. As the serial number range runs from 650,000 to 695,000 it seems I may have something that hasn't been faked.
 
It IS a nice looking 1894 for sure.

My source for the flaming bomb/US insignia is one of the Surplus Firearms magazines that's printed annually. They do say that if a firearm was accepted into military service and owned by the government, it should have US Property, US, a flaming bomb, or something similar denoting that it was owned by the gov't. Is there a stamp on the stock with initials on it? That usually means a government official assigned to the plant inspected the firearm prior to shipment to the military.

You may have something that hasn't been faked, as well. The Blue Book is a damned good source of info too.
 
It's good to be skeptical as far as I'm concerned. The stock is not in good condition. The top rear is completely missing, but I kept looking at a spot behind the wrist that looked almost like something was stamped, but even using a flashlight sideways across it I was unable to make anything out.
 
Up to 80% of trench shotgun purchase by the US war department, between serial #614 000 and #750 000, did NOT have the flaming bomb or US markings.
As far as i can tell all the other markings are consistent with a WWI trench gun.
 
The 1897 looks righteous to me. Except that someone chewed the butt stock a little. A vintage butt and buttplate would fix that. They can be had.
The 1894 is a decent old rifle, made in 1904. The half round barrel with full magazine isn't often seen in the 1894. The half round being an option and if the customer didn't specify magazine length, he automatically got a half magazine or "button mag". Someone varnished the stock but didn't sand them bad which is a bonus. It could be improved a lot by someone who knows the drill.
Too bad about the numbers scratched in the receiver but it is what it is, not a "collector rifle" but a dandy hunter and shooter that was a special order rifle back in the day.
 
WWI production started at 614,000 to 750,000 so this falls well with in the accepted range. That being said not all guns in that serial range are trench guns. Things that stand out blatantly are the incorrect or heavily comb sanded butstock, and the lack of a hand stamped US and flaming bomb on the right side ahead of the ejection port. Another thing to be noted is that trench guns purchased by foreign governments, or by American state, county, and city police forces, and by civilians will not have ordinance flaming bomb markings. From what I see it isn't definite that it is or isn't, I know the but stock is screwed but the heat shield/bayo lug is correct for a gun of that vintage.
 
shredder said:
I don't believe either one is a surplus firearm.

The trench gun should have a flaming bomb on the left side of the receiver and a US marking if it was military. That it doesn't suggests to me that its a reproduction made from parts.

The 1894 (as far as I can tell) was never issued to US forces in any calibre, and certainly not in 38-55. The Model 1895 was issued to troops in the Philippines for trials, but was disliked because that particular model had no charger (stripper clip) guide and the military Governor General Arthur MacArthur (father of the famous WWII general) said that it took forever to reload the magazine.
Click to expand...

Not all military trench guns are US marked. That's a fallacy. They are identified by serial number range and overall characteristics.

I'm not an expert on these, but I don;t see anything that would disqualify the OP's gun from being an issue trench or riot gun.
 
That is correct, the ones that are marked we're marked after WWI according to poyers book.
Claven2 said:
Not all military trench guns are US marked. That's a fallacy. They are identified by serial number range and overall characteristics.

I'm not an expert on these, but I don;t see anything that would disqualify the OP's gun from being an issue trench or riot gun.
Click to expand...
 
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