Cap and ball reloading procedure?

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So I'm going to fire my NMA tomorrow for the first time. I've got a quick question about reloading :)

I bought a (brass?) flask with various volume spouts. It's ok to load directly from this right? Also, do the chambers need to be cleaned at all between shooting and reloading to be safe? Patch the bore with lube between reloads to soften fouling? I have ox yoke felt wads going over the powder. Will be shooting Olde Ey Holy Black, and Pyrodex P.

Thx!
 
I gather the gun is a revolver and if so, the spouts are OK but I think you would be better advised to use an adjustable measure. You don't have to clean between loadings but if the gun because difficult to operate, take the cylinder off and run some water through the central hole and clean and relube the cylinder pin. If it is really stuck put the gun muzzle down in a bucket of water for 5 or 10 minutes, water level up to about the trigger. The fouling will soak up water and soften. Usually people use oversize balls in revolvers so that a ring of lead is shaved off giving a tight gas seal. Also use a filler such as corn meal on top of the powder so that the ball seats just flush with the top of the cylinder and put a bit of grease around the top of the ball.
the big worry is chain fires and I believe that to be primarily a case of a cap falling of a loaded cylinder and flame from the fired cylinder igniting the one with the now open nipple

I am guessing you have a revolver because you refer to chambers plural. If the gun is a single shot, I would recommend loading with an adjustable powder measure rather than straight from the flask. Also re revolvers start out with a relatively light charge, I found that a heavy charge in a Colt tended to crush the barrel key

cheers mooncoon
 
At our range you cannot load a blackpowder firearm directly from the flask.

Get an adjustable powder measure as mooncoon suggests , load that from your flask and then use the measure to load the cylinder.

More accurate measure (flask spouts not so much) and safer.
 
Better yet, get a set of plastic, or best, glass phials [off the usual online market]. Then you can pre-measure your charges and top them up during a natural break.

Incidentally, loading direct from a flask is prohibited in all MLAIC events worldwide. The chances of anything going amiss are passing small, but remember that you are holding around half a pound of explosive in a little copper grenade right there in your hand.

tac
 
Nice! I was thinking about making paper cartridges.

That's a nice idea if you shoot a fair amount. But it's a lot of fussing at home to gain a few seconds on the range.

I shoot a couple of NMA's in cowboy action and with a little practice I found that it's pretty fast to reload with loose powder and ball. Up to now I've been loading right from the flask. The idea being that with the small and more open chambers on a revolver that embers don't occur or last long enough to matter if they do occur. But since the last time out I've decided to switch to using an old rifle casing as a transfer measure. I'll still rely on the spout to do the volume measure. The rifle casing will simply be a transfer tool to load the chamber. That way if a flash does occur it'll only be the casing shooting off to parts unknown.
 
Hi. I reload on a stand. I take the cylinder out, set it on the stand, then load and cap it. I am quite confident loading straight from the flask. It takes a bit longer to walk from the firing line to the table, take the cylinder out, sit down, count out the balls, then run a brush through the centre hole to make sure the cylinder is not getting fouled there. I am never in a hurry. So I am confident there are no sparks. I usually load two revolvers at a time.

Kevin
 
I've always reloaded my Remingtons directly from the flask, using the skinny 28 grain spout. Many years and no problems.
There isn't any need to clean the chambers until you are finished shooting. They don't foul enough to be a problem.
You should use a natural black powder patch lube to grease the base pin and the rear of the cylinder. It really helps.
(Usually a melted mixture of beeswax, neatsfoot oil, and Crisco, made to a grease consistency)
Natural lube keeps fouling soft and prevents binding of the cylinder.
Greasing over the loaded chambers has the advantage of blasting lubricant towards the base pin, which actually helps to prevent fouling build-up.
I get 24 (or more) shots, and the gun still hasn't fouled up.
There is no need to use a loading stand with the Remington. With it's one-piece frame, loading the cylinder with the rammer places little stress on the gun.
And, after all, shooting a black powder revolver is about enjoying the authentic historical procedures.
I drop the cylinder after each six shots (easy) and wipe the fouling away, followed by more lube on the base pin.
It makes shooting easy and bind-free.
 
I shoot .44 Remingtons in CAS and use a folding stand to facilitate the process.

I load from the flask. In CAS, once you have shot a stage, considerable time goes by before you reload for the next stage. If the governing body thought it was an issue, they would have banned the practice long ago.

Some ranges may have a blanket policy on the matter.
 
Speaking of lube ball and base pin or arbor lube......

When I started with my first C&B revolvers about 8 years back I was looking around at options. A guy was using cooking oil. One drop over the balls and that was it. I liked the simplicity and lack of mess so I tried it. 8 years later I love the method. One drop from a small plastic bottle in the joint between the ball and chamber wall and it wicks around thanks to surface tension and seals. And if I only use the ONE drop instead of a big squirt it stays in place just fine.

I also found that Canola oil, my cooking oil of choice for this use, turned out to soften up and gooify the BP fouling in a most wondrous manner. The cylinders on both my Remington and Colt clones stay spinning freely all day with one drop more after doing the balls. I place this in the joint on the front of the cylinder.

In all this time I've never noticed any tendency to leading up at all. And the barrels clean out really easily at the end of the day with a couple of with a nylon brush and a couple of patches. I figure I owe this to the Canola oil.

I wondered about rust so I looked up to learn more about rape seed (Canola) oil. Turns out it was used by choice as the lubricant on high pressure and high temperature steam valves on merchant ships in WWII. And my own rust resisting tests showed it to be better than a lot of regular oils. The ONLY down side seems to be that it "dries" to a gummy nature over a few months even when in the cool and dark. SO it's no good for long term storage. But as an over ball or over night at a two day match it's my oil of choice. Then I go with Ballistol after cleaning and for storage.
 
Rider, are you shooting substitutes or real black powder? Just curious...different powders might require different lubes,maybe I got it upside down?

CG
 
Goex fffg for me. And yes, you're right. The substitutes might very well respond differently to the Canola oil I use.

So far I've only used Pyrodex in my Frontiersman category rifle loads. Andy from Bullet Barn says that their lube works OK with Pyrodex. So far he's proven to be right for the most part. I've had a couple of cases of minimal leading after a two day weekend. That despite a quick swabbing out and patching on the Saturday night.

I did find that on my long front stuffers that the Canola let me down. Not sure why but the bore got progressively harder to ram the patch and ball. Switched to "Moose Milk" made of one part Ballistoll to 3 parts water and that fixed that. So that's my SOP for guns where theres patches involvled. For the swaged fit revolvers I've stuck with the Canola.

The big one that I've always blindly followed is not to use any regular petroleum based regular gun oils in the BP guns. This, of course, is based on the well established internet rumor that the petroleum based oils have a strong risk of turning the fouling into a tar like gum. It all sounded so bad that I've never tried anything other than Ballistol and my beloved Canola. So I could well be missing out on some specific options that are OK to mix with BP. And of course Pyrodex and 777 might well have a few regular gun oils that they are compatible with that would gum up with proper BP.


Cleaning the guns is essential any way we look at it. And for myself that's another place where the Canola and Ballistol shine. These are both easily cleaned away along with the fouling by using warm or hot water with a little dish detergent to cut through the oil. A BP compatible synthetic oil of some sort might prove to be highly water resistant and make this already nasty job that much worse. So while better in the one way the practical side of me says to stick with what I know works not only for bullet lubrication and keeping the fouling soft but also for ease of cleaning.

While I'm giving up the family secrets I will repeat the idea of the best ever C&B cylinder cleaning tool. Buy a gross of pipe cleaners that have the stiff bristles in them. The dollar store fluffy colored ones don't work well for this. Bundle up 6 to 8 of them and give one end a sharp twist to lock them together. On the other end bend the bundle over onto itself and tighten up the individual bends so the bundle can be pushed down the chambers. On the twisted end crank it over. What you should have is a "J" with a crank handle on the other end. Now make a second one. "Stepped" chambers like I have on a couple of my C&B's might need two of the cleaners bent specially higher up the side if the whole regular bundle is hard to push into the narrowed powder area of the chambers.

One of these becomes your wet cleaning tool for the chambers. With the whole works dunked into the soapy water crank the handle a few times to clean both the walls and the back of the chamber. Swish the cleaner out in the water between chambers. The cool thing is that the pipe cleaners do a great job of cleaning the back of the chamber that regular bore brushes don't even touch.

The second J tool is kept dry. I use it with a regular cloth patch to first dry the chambers then to run an oiled patch in and swirl it around to lube up the chambers. A final dry patch on this same tool removes any excess oil. What little is left is enough to protect but not enough to bother the powder at the range even for the first shot.

The chambers have always been the worst thing to clean for me. The pipe cleaner tool has taken me from a good 20 minutes of frustration down to about 5 minutes or less. Instead of the roughly half hour per gun to clean and lube I can do a "short cleaning" where I don't open the action up in about 10 minutes per gun.

I've also started using the air line to blow the water out of the ramming assembly. And my old hair dryer to warm the parts up so the deep corners dry out faster. After oiling overall with a few drops here and there and the rest using an old toothbrush to get into the tight spots I shoot a little air through the rammer assembly to aid in spreading the oil into the parts I can't see. The pipe cleaner tools, hair dryer and air compressor is a key part of speeding up my revolver cleaning to be able to process two guns in 20 minutes or less. Of course if I'm chatting and drinking a wobbly pop or two the time goes out the window. But that's OK.....:)

I generally do two short cleanings then a full detail strip. Doing this now for the past 7 years I've found that there's some fouling inside the gun but not a whole lot. But no where near enough to beat out the oil and cause any rusting issues. And not enough to make the oil gummy enough to cause any troubles.

I do use that old toothbrush with a patch to dig down a little deeply in the hammer slot which helps. This being part of the "short cleaning". It's a bit wide for that but it works if the patch is wrapped up the sides and pinched a bit to aid in insertion. I keep thinking I should carve off one row of bristles to make that job easier. But it's not a big enough deal yet so I just keep re-thinking it each time. Someday....

That's a lot to dump all in one post. I hope it helps though. I know that the big downer for me is the cleaning at the end of the day. Doing what it takes to cut that time down to around 10 to 15 minutes per revolver is greatly helping me to get them out more often and enjoy them.

PS: One day for the black powder trail shoot with my flintlock I forgot my Moose Milk. Had to resort to spit patches to get through the day. Yep, patch on tongue while dolling out the powder then patch from tongue to muzzle, ball, start and set. Actually worked really well at keeping the patches and balls ramming down consistently all day. I did try to keep as much of my fingers off the patches as I could. And I must have looked like a right proper "old mountain man" as I was spitting out the loose fibers all day... .:d
 
The big one that I've always blindly followed is not to use any regular petroleum based regular gun oils in the BP guns. This, of course, is based on the well established internet rumor that the petroleum based oils have a strong risk of turning the fouling into a tar like gum.

I have used Fluid Film in all of my guns for the past 20 years or perhaps more. With one exception I have never had a problem with it. The one exception is that on the basis of if a little is good and lot is better, I sprayed the Fluid Film down the barrel which left a puddle in the breach area. That lead to a mud pie when I loaded the gun and I had to pull the ball to clean the gun. On all other occasions, I have sprayed the Fluid Film on a patch and run that down the barrel several times. It does not seem to migrate down the barrel on a gun stored vertically

cheers mooncoon
 
I have used Fluid Film in all of my guns for the past 20 years or perhaps more. With one exception I have never had a problem with it. The one exception is that on the basis of if a little is good and lot is better, I sprayed the Fluid Film down the barrel which left a puddle in the breach area. That lead to a mud pie when I loaded the gun and I had to pull the ball to clean the gun. On all other occasions, I have sprayed the Fluid Film on a patch and run that down the barrel several times. It does not seem to migrate down the barrel on a gun stored vertically

cheers mooncoon


I've got a can of Fluid Film as well and given that all the information says that it's primarily Lanolin I was wondering about it. I've hesitantly used it on a few of my BP guns mostly on the outside as I find it doesn't wipe away as much when handled. But have not had the guts to swab out the bore or chambers with it. So it's great to read that you've had good luck with it and it hasn't turned your BP guns into solid lumps of sticky goo.... :)

If canola works good, how about a drop of uncut ballistol?

Likely it would work just fine. But it's thinner than the Canola. So less of it would stay in the narrow joint between the ball and the chamber wall. And that means any extra would run down and into the holsters. Would it make a difference? Can't say. If you try it and get through a 35 or 40 round day of shooting with no barrel leading let me know. It would be nice to have it as an option.

There's also the cost issue. Canola oil is about $3 for a small bottle. The pourable can of Ballistol that is roughly the same volume is $30. That's why when I clean the guns at night on the two day meets I don't even bring along the Ballistol. I just use Canola because I'll be shooting them the next day and cleaning them at home the day after. And it takes at least a couple of week for the Canola to show any sign at all of beginning to gum up.

That's another bit of an old wive's tale too. The idea that you MUST clean the guns within a couple of hours or they'll be piles of rust flakes in your gun case by midnight. I've regularly waited until the Monday afternoon or evening to clean the guns after the Sunday shoots when away on a 2 day meet. The guns are no worse for this "abuse" and show no signs of any rust. Now if it were a super humid day of shooting or it was all done in the rain that would be different. I'd take the time to give them a basic cleaning after shooting was done for the day. Dry guns and stored in a dry gun case with BP fouling is one thing. Wet guns on a humid raining day in cases that will hold that humidity is a whole other story.

What I did find is that if I leave the parts soaking in the hot soapy water that I could get a very light flash rust forming while the parts were fully submerged. Since that discovery I only dunk and wash one part at a time instead of dumping all the bits into the bucket right off the bat and pull and scrub one at a time. With the one at a time method I've not seen any sign of that flash rust issue.
 
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