Nea 102
- Thread starter DILLIGAF
- Start date
I wouldn't say that much. My PAR is my first AR platform so I have no parts stockpile to pull from, and stock, foregrip, couple mags, BUIS, and scope mount put the whole platform around 2k. I guess it helps that it comes with a TRX Alpha rail but that is included in the $1300CAN price tag. I would expect decent parts and furniture on an AR at the $1500 price point, yes people will change it anyways, but it shouldn't "need" it.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Your par isn't an AR.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
The modern hunter is not an armalite rifle. It is not an ar15 or an ar15 variant. Nor is it an ar18, or an ar7, or an ar10, or any other ar platform. The NEA102 is an AR and of the original AR10 type. The straight pull ar15s in the UK are single shot ARs. They also are a different gun than the par.
AR doesn't mean assault rifle. Doesn't mean automatic rifle. Isn't every black rifle.
AR means armalite. AR refers to AR15 types or AR10 types generally.
If your par was an ar15 variant it wouldn't be non restricted.
I do know the actual meaning of "AR". With the .308 PAR (like mine) Troy took their AR10 variant design and heavily modified it to get around certain state's anti-AR laws, and it just happened to meet all the criteria for being "not an AR" according to the RCMP and got the NR status. The PAR is designed to be incompatible with uppers and lowers of "normal" AR variants, and is marketed as a proprietary pump-action design to circumvent the "by the AR name" bans. They even named it the Troy Pump-action Rifle or "PAR" for short solely to troll the AR haters.
You are right that anything outside of the exact Armalite design is not TRULY an AR. BUT... most people would consider the ATRS rifles or the Troy PAR an AR variant based on dimensions, location of safety and mag release, and parts compatibility. Put my PAR or an ATRS MH beside a Armalite designed AR10 and I bet most people would absolutely not be able to tell which one the "real" one is.
Heck, the ATRS MV/MH was marketed as "Canada's AR". It may not be an actual AR (Armalite Rifle) design... but it is so close that it can be easily lumped in with all the rest of the AR crowd. Which is quite unlike other modern sporting rifles like the XCR or ACR, which are quite different in appearance and function and obviously not AR's. The NEA102 is going to be rather different in appearance from the original 102 design, but is still going to be an AR102 variant because it has enough of the original design aspects and functionality to be considered as such instead of an AR10/AR308 variant or a proprietary design.
Just so you know, this... is what I would call a rifle based on the AR platform. It has a modified AR rail and it takes AR triggers, barrels, furniture, safeties, mags, and I think even bolts. Hopefully it gets a proper semi-auto AR variant in NR to grace the gun cabinet some day soon (NEA I'm lookin at you to start this ball rollin'!) but for now, this is the closest thing to an AR I can get to take hunting, and the accuracy, short barrel, and simple and dead reliable action makes this a great gun on it's own.
You are right that anything outside of the exact Armalite design is not TRULY an AR. BUT... most people would consider the ATRS rifles or the Troy PAR an AR variant based on dimensions, location of safety and mag release, and parts compatibility. Put my PAR or an ATRS MH beside a Armalite designed AR10 and I bet most people would absolutely not be able to tell which one the "real" one is.
Heck, the ATRS MV/MH was marketed as "Canada's AR". It may not be an actual AR (Armalite Rifle) design... but it is so close that it can be easily lumped in with all the rest of the AR crowd. Which is quite unlike other modern sporting rifles like the XCR or ACR, which are quite different in appearance and function and obviously not AR's. The NEA102 is going to be rather different in appearance from the original 102 design, but is still going to be an AR102 variant because it has enough of the original design aspects and functionality to be considered as such instead of an AR10/AR308 variant or a proprietary design.
Just so you know, this... is what I would call a rifle based on the AR platform. It has a modified AR rail and it takes AR triggers, barrels, furniture, safeties, mags, and I think even bolts. Hopefully it gets a proper semi-auto AR variant in NR to grace the gun cabinet some day soon (NEA I'm lookin at you to start this ball rollin'!) but for now, this is the closest thing to an AR I can get to take hunting, and the accuracy, short barrel, and simple and dead reliable action makes this a great gun on it's own.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
MH/MV, ACR, XCR, SCAR, RA M96... all very similar in look and some in their two piece design. But they aren't ARs. They may share some features, just like the PAR does, but that still doesn't make them ARs.
The AR15 and AR10 are AR designs. Armalite designs. The rest are all different enough to be their own platforms.
When speaking of legalities, it isn't even "AR variant"... it is AR15 variant" which is important when looking at why the Armalite AR10 KLM and AR102 are classified they way they are. They predate the AR15, so they aren't AR15 variants. That's why the Armalite AR102 is non restricted already.
And this ball has been rolling because of nea for a while now.
The AR15 and AR10 are AR designs. Armalite designs. The rest are all different enough to be their own platforms.
When speaking of legalities, it isn't even "AR variant"... it is AR15 variant" which is important when looking at why the Armalite AR10 KLM and AR102 are classified they way they are. They predate the AR15, so they aren't AR15 variants. That's why the Armalite AR102 is non restricted already.
And this ball has been rolling because of nea for a while now.
if the NEA 102 is the OG of AR10, then it means almost nothing in the modern age AR308/ar10/AR15 fits it other than scope mounts and ammos. Becuase everything in the OG AR10 was bigger, and AR308 was slightly scale down, and has a few interchangeability with AR15.
ACR, XCR, SCAR, and RA M96's are rather dissimilar from the AR family, aside from being military specification designs turned into semi-auto black modern sporting rifles for the civilian market. They all have features that may have been influenced by the military AR rifles, but they are very different machines. The exception in your list being the MH/MV, which is a proprietary rifle following as closely to the AR10/15 layout and design as is possible while still deliberately maintaining a Canadian non-restricted status. The .308 PAR (can't speak for the .223, I've never handled one) was quite clearly an AR308 design taken by Troy and turned into a pump action rifle, with enough changes to make it "not an AR variant (and yes, you know which 'AR's' I mean)", including incompatible uppers/lowers, same as you can find on the ATRS rifles, and is something you will almost certainly see on the new NEA102 as well. NEA is most likely going the "AR-102 variant so it's not restricted" route since otherwise, despite the differences, it would deemed an AR variant based on it's almost identical (key word-almost) form, features, and function to the restricted types of AR.
Again, technically? PAR, MV/MH, not an AR because ARMALITE didn't design them.
Legally? Not a restricted AR variant, because ATRS specifically designed an AR variant to not be an AR variant, I don't have to say that, they did. Troy took an AR10 and butchered it into a pump action, and called it a proprietary design.
I'm not debating if either of these rifles are legally or technically speaking a direct AR variant, because TECHNICALLY they obviously are not. There is no debate there.
Practically speaking, PAR's and MH/MV rifles are AR variants, someone took the AR15/AR10 design and made it to meet the silly rules. Scars, XCR's, ACR's, and whatever else, are obviously not AR variants. They are only similar in look to people who think black guns are scary and all the same. They are Scar's, XCR's, and ACR's, and were never trying to be a copy of an AR, unlike firearms like the Modern hunter or PAR, which are trying their hardest to be an AR, while at the same time trying to push the limits of what it means not to be an AR.
Anyway it's been nice but I gotta peace off of here. You are right, and I'm not wrong. Ever handled a Modern Varmint/Hunter or PAR? Shooting one might change your perspective of how much "not an AR" they are.
How about that NEA102, might put my buying of an XCR-L off and get one of them instead if they are NR.
Again, technically? PAR, MV/MH, not an AR because ARMALITE didn't design them.
Legally? Not a restricted AR variant, because ATRS specifically designed an AR variant to not be an AR variant, I don't have to say that, they did. Troy took an AR10 and butchered it into a pump action, and called it a proprietary design.
I'm not debating if either of these rifles are legally or technically speaking a direct AR variant, because TECHNICALLY they obviously are not. There is no debate there.
Practically speaking, PAR's and MH/MV rifles are AR variants, someone took the AR15/AR10 design and made it to meet the silly rules. Scars, XCR's, ACR's, and whatever else, are obviously not AR variants. They are only similar in look to people who think black guns are scary and all the same. They are Scar's, XCR's, and ACR's, and were never trying to be a copy of an AR, unlike firearms like the Modern hunter or PAR, which are trying their hardest to be an AR, while at the same time trying to push the limits of what it means not to be an AR.
Anyway it's been nice but I gotta peace off of here. You are right, and I'm not wrong. Ever handled a Modern Varmint/Hunter or PAR? Shooting one might change your perspective of how much "not an AR" they are.
How about that NEA102, might put my buying of an XCR-L off and get one of them instead if they are NR.
Once you replace the cheap stock,pistol grip and cheap bolt, add a good looking rail and swap out the trigger for a aftermarket you'll be close to 3K
This thing as is is pretty butt ugly
Looks fine to me as is ..... beauty in the eye of the beholder? $3,000 definitely isn't in my budget and I'm not sure $1,500 is ..... but if NR, I could maybe pop the $1,500 cherry ... just maybe.
Are Ar10 mags around?
My understanding is that the NEA25 is the production model that is being sold overseas in New Zealand, and has a restricted FRT#.
The model they have designed for the Canadian market is the NEA102, which doesn't have an FRT#... yet. It has been at the RCMP labs for 2 years or so now and as of right now they have a temporary FRT# of some sort and have sent a production model for final inspection to the lab, and they should get the final result back in the next few weeks. Go creep North Eastern Arm's on the book of faces, they've been dropping hints that it should be NR for some time now, and have really been ramping it up as of this week.
84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This thing doesnt have a published frt yet. The hope is that it becomes NR however in order to do so, i truly believe it needs to be incompatible with AR10 uppers and lowers. Similar to the MH. The NEA25 which this seems to have started life as, already has a restricted frt laballed as "member of the ar15 m16 family of blah blah blah".
At this point, all of us can do no more than hope the boys in red see this more as a MH than an ar10.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
The NEA25 model has a publish frt entry. The NEA102 has an frt number but not a published frt entry to go along with that number yet. The published entry at the conclusion of the classification process is what everyone is waiting for
There are no temporary frt numbers. Every gun showing up to the lab for classification gets assigned an frt number. Once classification is complete a report is published using that number as a reference.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
No. The plan is that is is more armalite ar102 than ar15. Nothing to do with the MH or MV.
