*** CZ 858 Update ***

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Rescue85 said:
I usually post only in the rarest of circumstances but I have a thought (which my wife claims is a dangerous phenomenon :)).

If John were to publicly sell one rifle, for the publicly expressed purpose of establishing a test case, would that new insurance program cover John and the test case owner. If it turned out badly in the long run, the limited release, and the fact that it was done solely to establish a test case, should weigh heavily in mitigation. If, on the other hand, it turned out well then we would win. I apologize in advance to those who might see this as naïve, but I wish to pivot the ongoing conversation from bitter rancour to constructive brainstorming and action. Perhaps there are even better ideas out there. We need to get organized on this issue.
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I think a better idea would be ANY one that doesn't involve John (Mr. Wolverine) risking his business being shut down by violating a (trumped-up and bogus as it is) new prohib classification rule. I have no alternate suggestion at this time, but that one would not be my first choice.
 
Hmmm. Perhaps a class action lawsuit that rolls in the the 10/22magazine/beowulf magazine/cz858 issues all together? Any litigation lawyers in this forum?
 
There is no need for the lawsuit.

Replace the engraved bolt carrier and furniture with stock beaver barf and stock BC and the rifle is legal NR.

Turn in the prohibited parts to RCMP for destruction. Make a show of it.

That would get Wolverine on RCMP #### list. So this is a concern.
 
Rescue85 said:
I usually post only in the rarest of circumstances but I have a thought (which my wife claims is a dangerous phenomenon :)).

If John were to publicly sell one rifle, for the publicly expressed purpose of establishing a test case, would that new insurance program cover John and the test case owner. If it turned out badly in the long run, the limited release, and the fact that it was done solely to establish a test case, should weigh heavily in mitigation. If, on the other hand, it turned out well then we would win. I apologize in advance to those who might see this as naïve, but I wish to pivot the ongoing conversation from bitter rancour to constructive brainstorming and action. Perhaps there are even better ideas out there. We need to get organized on this issue.
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Hypothetical speaking if I was to do this the insurance may kick in, but I suspect they would opt out on the grounds that it was a deliberate act. If I was to be charged, I suspect there would be grounds for closing my business, at least for the time (several years) for a decision to be made. I have to consider the responsibility I have to 20 full time loyal employees I can't just stop paying them. We have a lot of competitors who which be quick to go after our exclusive lines as we would not able to for full our commitment's to them if we were shut down. This act would be against my own principles and would ruin my business which is the end result of a life time of work from my wife and myself.

Nice idea but not for me, we have other options that keep us with in the law and allow us to continue to operate. Now more than ever before we need to keep our sales volume up, not get closed down.
 
Hi John;

I understand your position. I am not looking to harm your business. So let's discard my initial idea for now but continue to see if there are other solutions that can be generated by the group. I very much want to support and encourage you on this issue (I am one who has an order in for an 858).
 
Rescue85 said:
Hi John;

I understand your position. I am not looking to harm your business. So let's discard my initial idea for now but continue to see if there are other solutions that can be generated by the group. I very much want to support and encourage you on this issue (I am one who has an order in for an 858).
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I understand and I welcome all ideas. As one of our customers who have prepaid for one of these rifles you are welcome to a full cash refund at any time. When we beat this, and we will, if you leave your payment with us, you will receive your order at the original price. As for the other remaining rifles, the retail price may have to increase if we incur legal costs. I hope this is not seen as "profiteering" :)
 
I want to thank Wolverine for all their efforts in this.
Wolverine goes far beyond just making a profit.
You will have exclusivity of my online firearms and related purchases for years to come.
 
BlackVoid said:
There is no need for the lawsuit.

Replace the engraved bolt carrier and furniture with stock beaver barf and stock BC and the rifle is legal NR.

Turn in the prohibited parts to RCMP for destruction. Make a show of it.

That would get Wolverine on RCMP #### list. So this is a concern.
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There are no prohibited parts on the "Spartan 858", just the Molon labe's Ideology afraid the red bullies.
 
Mr Wolverine said:
I understand and I welcome all ideas. As one of our customers who have prepaid for one of these rifles you are welcome to a full cash refund at any time. When we beat this, and we will, if you leave your payment with us, you will receive your order at the original price. As for the other remaining rifles, the retail price may have to increase if we incur legal costs. I hope this is not seen as "profiteering" :)
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I just don't understand why people would label that as profiteering.

On the other hand, if there are other people like me the price would have to go up on supply and demand alone. I didn't want one, because A) I don't have the money burning a hole in my pocket right now and B) I already have a VZ58. Now I just want one to snub the people(?) at the RCMP firearms lab, and the people above them.
 
This whole thing is really upsetting. People need to realize that this can not only just happen within the firearms community. This is the RCMP greatly over stepping its boundaries.
 
Mr Wolverine said:
I understand and I welcome all ideas. As one of our customers who have prepaid for one of these rifles you are welcome to a full cash refund at any time. When we beat this, and we will, if you leave your payment with us, you will receive your order at the original price. As for the other remaining rifles, the retail price may have to increase if we incur legal costs. I hope this is not seen as "profiteering" :)
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Love this part! Well said wolverine! We all got your back!
 
It's a shame that Wolverine has closed down pre-orders for this rifle, because one sure symbol of support and solidarity, would have been for everyone who's able, to convince all their friends in the shooting sports to buy up all the remainder of these rifles that are still unspoken for. This would have boosted John's revenue, to not only recoup his wholesale costs of the inventory he has to sit on, but to go towards any upcoming legal battle. I am happy to wait out my own pre-payment already made and leave it in John's hands to help in any appeals or whatever's needed to get this situation made right. Too bad the rest of the inventory couldn't be pre-sold too, as I'm pretty sure now, just because of this wrong done to us, it is incentive enough for many more to jump on board and buy one, if only as a symbol of defiance, to stand up for what's right and not knuckle under. As it is, I am going to encourage any of my good friends who don't have a PAL (or RPAL) to get one, just as a symbol as well, and maybe once this is settled, they might be able to snap up one of the left-over 858's. ;-)
 
Mr Wolverine said:
I understand and I welcome all ideas. As one of our customers who have prepaid for one of these rifles you are welcome to a full cash refund at any time. When we beat this, and we will, if you leave your payment with us, you will receive your order at the original price. As for the other remaining rifles, the retail price may have to increase if we incur legal costs. I hope this is not seen as "profiteering" :)
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Thank you Sir. That is a class act. I don't see that as "profiteering but rather as passing necessary costs on to the customer.

I continue to read this forum with interest. I hope that the seeds of some good strategies come from it.

Best regards
 
I think additional funds over and above his profit margin would be required to win this.
Having been through this myself, I know that public donations are required, which we never
got for our court challenge, which we won. There was two of us, everyone said do it, but we
paid for it.
Legal research costs lots, court costs etc Crowd Funding would be an interesting concept,
but CRA is looking into taxing the proceeds as income to the person who receives it!
The bottom line is, does the firearms community want the benefit of owning this product and
others like it? If so, there is a cost to be paid and they should help pay it.
 
El_Monty457 said:
It's a shame that Wolverine has closed down pre-orders for this rifle, because one sure symbol of support and solidarity, would have been for everyone who's able, to convince all their friends in the shooting sports to buy up all the remainder of these rifles that are still unspoken for. This would have boosted John's revenue, to not only recoup his wholesale costs of the inventory he has to sit on, but to go towards any upcoming legal battle. I am happy to wait out my own pre-payment already made and leave it in John's hands to help in any appeals or whatever's needed to get this situation made right. Too bad the rest of the inventory couldn't be pre-sold too, as I'm pretty sure now, just because of this wrong done to us, it is incentive enough for many more to jump on board and buy one, if only as a symbol of defiance, to stand up for what's right and not knuckle under. As it is, I am going to encourage any of my good friends who don't have a PAL (or RPAL) to get one, just as a symbol as well, and maybe once this is settled, they might be able to snap up one of the left-over 858's. ;-)
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That's a great idea. I didn't buy one as I am moving more towards skeet/trap and long range shooting. However, I'd buy one just to make a point!!!
 
Hey Wolverine. Set up a crowd fund and I'll be more than happy to donate to support your legal costs. We cannot let the RCMP get away with this one.
 
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