I understand, personally I am more curious about learning if there are legit issues. Not in the game of defending a firearms per se.
post if you think the x95 is fugly
- Thread starter auracle
- Start date
I understand, personally I am more curious about learning if there are legit issues. Not in the game of defending a firearms per se.
TAR21's more aethetically appealing to me than the x95, and I like the mag release where it is on the TAR21. That being said, the x95 does appear to have some functional improvements over the TAR21. So while I do find the X95 a bit ugly, I'll probably buy one at some point. I just won't be trading my old-school Tavor for one.
Hi folks. Many of you seem curios as to what my reliability issues are with my Tavor. I bought my Tavor in my quest for a NR reliable proven battle rifle to use at the range, occasionally in the bush and perhaps once a year at an IPSC 3 gun. When searching for a gun I always stress that reliability is paramount over all other factors. With the reported awesomeness of the Tavor I purchased it one year ago. I have had 2 issues with the rifle. One is not the a fault of the rifle itself.
The first issue is the legendary Super Sabra. Everyone loves them. I think there a good item to have. It certainly has a much lighter pull over the OEM. Immediately upon installation I knew I had a problem. I could pull through 3 movements of creep in the second stage. It was just not what I thought was acceptable for the price. After a month+ of batting e-mails back and forth with Geissele on the issue Arms East replaced it. The replacement one was the same and perhaps a bit heavier and 4 movements at first. It now after dry firing 1000 times (yes I counted) it has only 2 movements through the second stage and about 1/4 Lb heavier. So I guess that's an improvement so I will leave that alone. I will not bug Geissele or Arms East on the matter anymore and just eat my decision to buy it. This is obviously not a Tavor issue but none the less it took the wind out of my sail.
The second issue is a reliability issue. I have 600rds through this rifle. It has so far jammed 10 times. That's a 98.5% reliability rate. That might be acceptable to you guys but that doesn't fly with me. Let me state that I have owned AR15's since the mid 80's and been in the military since then too. Have owned 6 Ar15's, a T97, and an SL8. I might have had 10 jams with my 3 Colt, 1 Bushmaster, 1 Armalite, and 1 Norinco AR combined over 30 years. Yet I have that many with the Tavor in the first 600 rds! I clean this rifle and lube it as it should be. Problems as detailed as I can explain are this:
1st Stoppage - last round in mag popped out into action upon extraction/ejection of second to last round after firing and engaged BHO leaving loose round to flop around in open action. Magazine was my USGI 5/20 all metal with metal follower Vietnam war piece of my collection. I have had this mag since a nam vet gave it to me in 88 and has never jammed in anything else. Ammo M193
2nd Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and Stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. USGI 5/30. Ammo M193
3rd Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and Stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Gen2 moded Pmag 5/30. Ammo M193
4th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
5th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
6th Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
7th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M855
8th Stoppage - last round in mag popped out into action upon extraction/ejection of second to last round after firing and engaged BHO leaving loose round to flop around in open action. Magazine was RRA LAR-15 stock with orange follower. Ammo M855
9th Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
10th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
So I asked around and seems I am not alone. A student of mine who is a gunnnut too has a friend who recently sold his Tavor due to feed problems.
All this money.
FML
Moe
The first issue is the legendary Super Sabra. Everyone loves them. I think there a good item to have. It certainly has a much lighter pull over the OEM. Immediately upon installation I knew I had a problem. I could pull through 3 movements of creep in the second stage. It was just not what I thought was acceptable for the price. After a month+ of batting e-mails back and forth with Geissele on the issue Arms East replaced it. The replacement one was the same and perhaps a bit heavier and 4 movements at first. It now after dry firing 1000 times (yes I counted) it has only 2 movements through the second stage and about 1/4 Lb heavier. So I guess that's an improvement so I will leave that alone. I will not bug Geissele or Arms East on the matter anymore and just eat my decision to buy it. This is obviously not a Tavor issue but none the less it took the wind out of my sail.
The second issue is a reliability issue. I have 600rds through this rifle. It has so far jammed 10 times. That's a 98.5% reliability rate. That might be acceptable to you guys but that doesn't fly with me. Let me state that I have owned AR15's since the mid 80's and been in the military since then too. Have owned 6 Ar15's, a T97, and an SL8. I might have had 10 jams with my 3 Colt, 1 Bushmaster, 1 Armalite, and 1 Norinco AR combined over 30 years. Yet I have that many with the Tavor in the first 600 rds! I clean this rifle and lube it as it should be. Problems as detailed as I can explain are this:
1st Stoppage - last round in mag popped out into action upon extraction/ejection of second to last round after firing and engaged BHO leaving loose round to flop around in open action. Magazine was my USGI 5/20 all metal with metal follower Vietnam war piece of my collection. I have had this mag since a nam vet gave it to me in 88 and has never jammed in anything else. Ammo M193
2nd Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and Stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. USGI 5/30. Ammo M193
3rd Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and Stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Gen2 moded Pmag 5/30. Ammo M193
4th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
5th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
6th Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
7th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M855
8th Stoppage - last round in mag popped out into action upon extraction/ejection of second to last round after firing and engaged BHO leaving loose round to flop around in open action. Magazine was RRA LAR-15 stock with orange follower. Ammo M855
9th Stoppage - on charging the round hung up on the feed ramp and stopped the bolt from further feeding the round. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
10th Stoppage - round fed to top of chamber causing top edge of chamber opening to peal back and mangle case and drive projectile into case. Mag AA Beowulf 5/10. Ammo M193
So I asked around and seems I am not alone. A student of mine who is a gunnnut too has a friend who recently sold his Tavor due to feed problems.
All this money.
FML
Moe
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Don't mind the look of the X95 but sticking with my Tavor, Have the super sabra trigger pack still to install and the bow, look forward to the results.
Usually mine goes for an afternoon out as my go to, along with select others
Usually mine goes for an afternoon out as my go to, along with select others
I dont own a Tavor so I am not biased to either old or new, and therefore I do not see a big enough difference between the 2 to say one is uglier then the other. I only own AR15's currently so all bullpup's look/feel weird to me in comparison, but I wouldn't say either is ugly. Looks aren't everything so Id have to shoot one to say which one I liked better, Ive tried the 21 and again without much time behind the trigger on them they are just different then what I am used too so far.
If I did buy one it would be restricted length, not a big fan of the longer NR barrel since I don't currently shoot outside of a shooting range
If I did buy one it would be restricted length, not a big fan of the longer NR barrel since I don't currently shoot outside of a shooting range
Wow -first i heard of it and like i stated i have owned a number of them--i shoot with guys who own them and hang out with one of the biggest(volume)retailers for tavors in ontario----this is definatley not a discredit to you experience but like i said have not heard this side of tavor experience ever so it is interesting to me--too bad you had that but only stuff i heard was equipment related--plastic beowulf mags(suck in my opinion)--undercharged(low quality ammo)--aftermarket trigger groups--operator error--and that's it---wish u well hope u come across a better one -cheers ps---mags i use are lar-15 and d&h teflon coated
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I agree with everything you say. I am really loss as to why I'm having such issues. With 20 years as an aircraft mechanic (AME,AF,AVN + 8 years as an FE) you would think my technical background would push me through this but I can't figure it out. All my USGI are D+H Teflon coated, many have anti tilt followers, the Beowulfs are Alexander Arms and the LAR's are RRA. No crap ammo and the rifle is properly maintained. I can say that my experience does not reflect the average Tavor owner and in no way can I say I think it is a bad product. I am just at a loss as to what to do next. I though about putting it up for sale but I can't in good conscious sell it to a fellow CGN member. If I can't work it out I may part it out and send it to the CFO for destruction.
Moe
PinaKaleada
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of most
Sorry to hear that Moe, that sucks.
The only time ive ever had any issues, was when I was riding the charging handle or my mag wasnt properly inserted. I have learned since not to baby this rifle.
Of course Lovie made us load some rounds backwards to test our clearing skills but that doesnt count.
The only time ive ever had any issues, was when I was riding the charging handle or my mag wasnt properly inserted. I have learned since not to baby this rifle.
Of course Lovie made us load some rounds backwards to test our clearing skills but that doesnt count.
Interesting... ive put about 1200 rds through mine... 0 malfunctions.... ammo included steel case mfs/ barnaul, ae 556 xm195 xm195 hornadys and a bunch of other 223 rounds. All fed good and on average 1" groups at 50 yds with xm193... with aimpoint and 3x magnifier
The main reason why im considering the x95 is because from what i saw i can remove the barrel without having to remove the top rail... + a few extra features such as slimmer, qd mounts , rails ... the new mag release doesnt matter much to me
The main reason why im considering the x95 is because from what i saw i can remove the barrel without having to remove the top rail... + a few extra features such as slimmer, qd mounts , rails ... the new mag release doesnt matter much to me
While not a tavor the only times I've had feeding problems in my ar have been with an aa 50 beo metal mag. I've had bullets pushed back into the casing and jams. I realize that you have listed multiple mags that have given you issues but these mags may have caused you 4 or 5 of malfunctions. Mine is the one that was crimped to restrict it to 5 rounds.
Yea mine are the Alexander Arms make with the blue follower. In any case it does not seem to have feed problems on any specific round or mag.
Moe
