Walther Dilemma

Got Juice?

Got Juice?

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This is a tough thing to post but here goes.

I have 2 Walther Rifles. One is a 1967 KK UIT Match with a Suhl Barrel. Love this gun. points and shoots like a dream. Consistent 10 shot groups at 100m and subtracting bullet diameter has this gem shooting in the .219's

Rifle #2 is a Running Boar. Not just any Running Boar but the 100th Anniversary, with gorgeous wood to match. 100m groups less bullet diameter are a solid .185-.2 if you can keep your concentration up.

A rimfire rifle expert enthusiast has suggested that one gun is better than having 2 form the standpoint of consistency.

When asked for a selling price on the Walther Running Boar, he indicated 1900.00 and the UIT Match appx 1750.00

Crazy, these are old guns, but they are crazy accurate, and i can see the point of shooting one very well, rather than shooting 2 guns half arsed.

Are these prices in line?
 
Got Juice? said:
This is a tough thing to post but here goes.

I have 2 Walther Rifles. One is a 1967 KK UIT Match with a Suhl Barrel. Love this gun. points and shoots like a dream. Consistent 10 shot groups at 100m and subtracting bullet diameter has this gem shooting in the .219's

Rifle #2 is a Running Boar. Not just any Running Boar but the 100th Anniversary, with gorgeous wood to match. 100m groups less bullet diameter are a solid .185-.2 if you can keep your concentration up.

A rimfire rifle expert enthusiast has suggested that one gun is better than having 2 form the standpoint of consistency.

When asked for a selling price on the Walther Running Boar, he indicated 1900.00 and the UIT Match appx 1750.00

Crazy, these are old guns, but they are crazy accurate, and i can see the point of shooting one very well, rather than shooting 2 guns half arsed.

Are these prices in line?
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If you have two Walthers that shoot "consistent" or "solid" 100m ten-shot groups in the 0.2"s (or even better), why on Earth would you agree with the "enthusiast" that "one gun is better than having 2 form the standpoint of consistency"? His point of view may be coloured by a desire to buy one of those rifles. Those results, consistent .2's at 100 meters, are quite extraordinary for a .22LR. That's one hole at 100 "consistently"! If shooters could achieve that consistently at half that distance they would be overjoyed.

If you enjoy superlative, outstanding, astonishing, incredible .22LR rifle accuracy and are not in desperate need of money (or a recommendation for psychiatric evaluation ;))then you owe it to yourself to keep both and to never entertain the idea of selling either. It is excruciatingly difficult to find those kind of rifles.
 
smokeater40 said:
Google fu shows both rifles going for around 1400 to 1500 USD so I would say prices are inline with market. Don't know if they sold at those prices. Nice rifles by the way.
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grauhanen said:
If you have two Walthers that shoot "consistent" or "solid" 100m ten-shot groups in the 0.2"s (or even better), why on Earth would you agree with the "enthusiast" that "one gun is better than having 2 form the standpoint of consistency"? His point of view may be coloured by a desire to buy one of those rifles. Those results, consistent .2's at 100 meters, are quite extraordinary for a .22LR. That's one hole at 100 "consistently"! If shooters could achieve that consistently at half that distance they would be overjoyed.

If you enjoy superlative, outstanding, astonishing, incredible .22LR rifle accuracy and are not in desperate need of money (or a recommendation for psychiatric evaluation ;))then you owe it to yourself to keep both and to never entertain the idea of selling either. It is excruciatingly difficult to find those kind of rifles.
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Interesting points you fellas have made. I need time to process this. Both rifles are nothing short of amazing. That being said, if you were in my boots, what direction would you be leaning?

Full disclosure there is an offer close to 2k for the Running Boar. I do not need the cash :) but I admit it is tempting.
 
Got Juice
Both appear to be astonishingly accurate rifles. If you don't need the money, ask yourselves what inflation is going to do to 2k over the next decade versus what the rifle is going to be worth in 10 years....I would keep them both and enjoy them for the rest of my life....or pass them to my kids when they get older.
Kody
 
grauhanen said:
If you have two Walthers that shoot "consistent" or "solid" 100m ten-shot groups in the 0.2"s (or even better), why on Earth would you agree with the "enthusiast" that "one gun is better than having 2 form the standpoint of consistency"? His point of view may be coloured by a desire to buy one of those rifles. Those results, consistent .2's at 100 meters, are quite extraordinary for a .22LR. That's one hole at 100 "consistently"! If shooters could achieve that consistently at half that distance they would be overjoyed.

If you enjoy superlative, outstanding, astonishing, incredible .22LR rifle accuracy and are not in desperate need of money (or a recommendation for psychiatric evaluation ;))then you owe it to yourself to keep both and to never entertain the idea of selling either. It is excruciatingly difficult to find those kind of rifles.
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THIS.

Great googly moogly any rifle that does that KEEP 100M 6mm PPC rail guns struggle to get this tight. If your accuracy #'s are right they are each worth 10x your current evaluations.
 
Kody said:
Got Juice
Both appear to be astonishingly accurate rifles. If you don't need the money, ask yourselves what inflation is going to do to 2k over the next decade versus what the rifle is going to be worth in 10 years....I would keep them both and enjoy them for the rest of my life....or pass them to my kids when they get older.
Kody
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^I have to kind of agree with this. Doesn't sound like they'll LOSE value, so a year (or more) down the line you can make the decision. Or not. If the $2K offer is tempting, something tells me you don't feel you actually need/want both but I wouldn't let the offer add any stress/pressure to my life if I were you. If you honestly DON'T need the money, or badly want anything that $2K represents, then I have a hunch the empty spot in your safe is a less desirable than a $2K bump in the bank account.
 
grauhanen said:
Those results, consistent .2's at 100 meters, are quite extraordinary for a .22LR. That's one hole at 100 "consistently"! If shooters could achieve that consistently at half that distance they would be overjoyed.
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Yup, nobody shoots .22 LR that tight at 100 with any kind of consistency. The quality of rimfire ammunition precludes it from occurring. You may get the occasional
grouping like that, when you fire a string of shots with tight MV spread and atmospheric conditions are favorable. I would believe those numbers for 50M, because that represents high level benchrest accuracy at the distance. 100M? Might wanna double check that. You don't subtract bullet diameter after measuring CTC ;)
 
.2's at 100m....to give you an idea of what your guns might be worth there are guys in the US spending north of 5K USD to have BR guns built that can achieve that kind of performance. I would think that 2K CAD is low.
 
RabidM4U5 said:
Yup, nobody shoots .22 LR that tight at 100 with any kind of consistency. The quality of rimfire ammunition precludes it from occurring. You may get the occasional
grouping like that, when you fire a string of shots with tight MV spread and atmospheric conditions are favorable. I would believe those numbers for 50M, because that represents high level benchrest accuracy at the distance. 100M? Might wanna double check that. You don't subtract bullet diameter after measuring CTC ;)
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Well said!
I would like to see a couple of 100m 25 shots targets 5x5 and see those .2s.
I'm pretty good behind a 22lr target rifle and even my 1813 supermatch would not do that.
I wouldn't sell those rifles
 
Got Juice? said:
Full disclosure there is an offer close to 2k for the Running Boar. I do not need the cash :) but I admit it is tempting.
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Take the $$ and run ?
My "logic" is
- The market for "match" gun isn't that big in Canada, and competitive shooters will usually go for a older Anschutz over a older Walther
- Running Boar rifle have become a "curiosity" more than anything else, since the Olympic discipline moved to 10M air rifle in 1984.

Then again, if you don't need the money and like them... why sell them? Should you ever decide to sell one and want another later on, who knows how easy (or hard) it will be to find one in similar shape (that shoot as good)
 
if the running boar is the one with the thumbhole stock, he may be light on the price. not many of those for sale. I don't Think i'd let it go for $2K were it mine. Ive had many nice high end rifles, including the running boar air rifle. I foolishly sold it for 2k and was offered over 4 after taking the money.
The UIT with the suhl barrel, is likely the more accurate of the 2, slug the barrels, and see which has the the tighter choke, I bet its the suhl/uit. Suhl's are amazing rifles and barrels.
 
I hate my life. I have been to the range 3 times to get some kind of reproducible results to snap some pics of. Weather has not been cooperative to say the least.

Today was overcast with a middling 10mph wind at 60m, tapering to 7-12 gusts at 100. Yesterday was even worse (if you can imagine) we had 0 wind, so you would think that conditions were perfect. But it was not to be. The sky was cloudless, and the effect of direct sun on the snow was some strange ground wind conditions, seen as some really strange mirage through the scope.

Posted some groups in the .4,.7 range with both rifles, and 3 different shooters. just not our day today. Stopped after shooting 100 rounds through each rifle. Even tried a quick clean, and a fresh 25 fouling, and no joy.

This has been the first time I have ever experienced frustration at the range. A bitter pill to swallow when nothing works right. Normally range time is so relaxing. Time to take a week off and regroup. If you lose confidence, no matter the gear, your shooting will suck.

I might send the gun to YoDave to play with. See what he can do :)
 
dizzy said:
if the running boar is the one with the thumbhole stock, he may be light on the price. not many of those for sale. I don't Think i'd let it go for $2K were it mine. Ive had many nice high end rifles, including the running boar air rifle. I foolishly sold it for 2k and was offered over 4 after taking the money.
The UIT with the suhl barrel, is likely the more accurate of the 2, slug the barrels, and see which has the the tighter choke, I bet its the suhl/uit. Suhl's are amazing rifles and barrels.
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2vuk9bs.jpg
 
Got Juice? said:
I hate my life. I have been to the range 3 times to get some kind of reproducible results to snap some pics of. Weather has not been cooperative to say the least.

Today was overcast with a middling 10mph wind at 60m, tapering to 7-12 gusts at 100. Yesterday was even worse (if you can imagine) we had 0 wind, so you would think that conditions were perfect. But it was not to be. The sky was cloudless, and the effect of direct sun on the snow was some strange ground wind conditions, seen as some really strange mirage through the scope.

Posted some groups in the .4,.7 range with both rifles, and 3 different shooters. just not our day today. Stopped after shooting 100 rounds through each rifle. Even tried a quick clean, and a fresh 25 fouling, and no joy.

This has been the first time I have ever experienced frustration at the range. A bitter pill to swallow when nothing works right. Normally range time is so relaxing. Time to take a week off and regroup. If you lose confidence, no matter the gear, your shooting will suck.

I might send the gun to YoDave to play with. See what he can do :)
Click to expand...


What kind(s) of ammo were you using? Was it the American Eagle 40 grain high velocity ammo you have previously advocated?

Got Juice? said:
I'll put my Walther KKM UIT Special with AE .40gn lrn against any ammo other than Tenex or Center-X in 50m and 100m. In fact, over 100 rounds of all kind of ammo AE had less than 19fps Standard Deviation in velocity.

Only Tenex, Midas+, and one of the Aguila's posted better numbers. And all those are 4-7x the cost.
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See https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1493461-Toz-T03-12/page2

At 100 yards/meters the overwhelming majority of serious target shooters eschew HV ammo because it doesn't retain supersonic velocity for the entire 100 meter distance. When the bullet slows down and crosses the speed of sound threshold at around 75 meters it experiences turbulence and loses accuracy.

For the best chance for the best results, use the subsonic match ammo such as Center-X or Tenex to which you pointed for better results, albeit at much greater cost. Subsonic ammo remains subsonic and doesn't experience the same transonic turbulence and accuracy challenges faced by HV ammo at 100 meters.
 
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