Elk Rifle; help me choose

BeaverMeat said:
Explain? What's wring with 8mm?
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I didn't say anything was wrong with the 8mm... I said forget the 8mm...

He is having trouble with scoped rifles and long range and does not want a scope on his surplus 8mm.

He already has two scoped commercial rifles that will kill an elk just fine... why use a military surplus 8mm with open sights? So I said forget the 8mm...
 
'06, but spend a bunch of cash on practice. 300 yd. shots are pretty much the limit, IMHO, for the casual shooter. Anything beyond that takes a lot of practice, and some technical experience - wind drift, distance judgement, bullet drop. A 4" (hunting) group at 100 yards becomes a 16" group at 400. The difference between a clean kill and a miss or wound.

To be perfectly honest, I haven't met more than a handful of "weekend hunters" that could shoot reliably much past 200 m. When I took some out for 300-500 m. shooting, their first remark was usually "But that's almsot a mile!" "Nope, that first piece of plywood is 300 yards."
 
I'd go with the .308.... with a 165 or 159 is what I've used. Don't know why but BARs have never struck me as long guns.... if you're lucky and it's 1.5 inch at 100, 3 at 200, 6 at 300 and then 12 at 400.... that's if you got an accurate BAR.... maybe I'm the only one with that experience but BARs have always been bush guns to me....
 
CreamySmooth said:
I'd go with the .308.... with a 165 or 159 is what I've used. Don't know why but BARs have never struck me as long guns.... if you're lucky and it's 1.5 inch at 100, 3 at 200, 6 at 300 and then 12 at 400.... that's if you got an accurate BAR.... maybe I'm the only one with that experience but BARs have always been bush guns to me....
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He'd be using a BLR, based on his first post. The ones I've used are pretty much on par with a hunting bolt gun, but even the BAR's Ive tried are pretty good, with the right ammo.
 
ghl1 said:
The 30-06 Browning is a nice gun and you can not go wrong with a 30-06. If you are sighted in at 200 yds, bullet drop is only approx. 3in at 300 yds, blast away. Use a good quality projectile 165g-180g. It is the old story that it is shot placement not caliber.
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To get 3" drop at 300, my 300 win has to be zeroed at 260 yards using 165 grain TTSX. 3" high at 140 or so.

200 yard zero, 300 yard 3" drop is 257 Weatherby territory.
 
Bartledan said:
To get 3" drop at 300, my 300 win has to be zeroed at 260 yards using 165 grain TTSX. 3" high at 140 or so.

200 yard zero, 300 yard 3" drop is 257 Weatherby territory.
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IMHO, that's why any longer shot should only be made after a LOT of practice and throroughly knowing your gun and cartridge, as well as being able to read the wind, etc.
 
I am going to tell you exactly what I would do in your situation, and you can take away what ever you want from it.

Go to a store where you can get the best deal on ammo, buy $400 worth of the same brand and preferably the same lot of 30-06 with 165 gn soft point bullet........DO NOT BUY PREMIUM AMMO, it is nothing but a waste of money in a 30-06. This should get you about 10 boxes of ammo give or take. Now take your rifle and ammo out and sight it absolutely dead on center X @ 25 yds. Anyone can do this very accurately and with less wasted ammo than starting at 100 yds/mtrs. Now you have your rifle sighted in with your ammo for approx. 250-260 yds and you will be point plank to about 320 yds...........Now put 1 box away for hunting and go practice at different ranges from 50-400 yds if you have the range capability to do so, with the rest of your ammo. If you can afford it buy more of the same ammo, go shoot gophers and jack rabbits and badgers and coyotes or what ever your indigenous varmints are. Do this all summer with all the ammo you can afford to burn and come elk time you will be not only be properly gunned, you will also have a lot of shooting under your belt and a great deal of confidence in your rifle and ammo and most importantly your ability.

I can tell you it is very satisfying to swat a gopher at a couple hundred yards with an '06 and watch him come unglued like he swallowed a grenade...............a good sight-in and some practice and before you know it you'll be doing this 3-4 out of 5 gophers at anything from 100-300 yds. One little tip.........from 75-200 mtrs hold where the gopher meets the ground cause you'll be hitting 2-4" high over those ranges.
 
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Thanks guys. It looks like i'll be going with the 30-06. I was hesitant to use it. Perhaps it was because it was the last rifle my father purchased, maybe because I don't want to scratch the finish, maybe because I read somewhere that lever actions aren't accurate. It's probably because I'm a bit of a firearms hipster; Brownings are passe because they put that logo on literally everything, and 30-06 is too popular. Perhaps I'll look at a 8mm hipster hunter when I have a lot of money to put into something custom - your grandfather used this, but you probably never heard of 8mm. :stirthepot2:

rral22: I'm not sure how far the elk were. It is hard to judge distance when there is nothing else to use as a reference. Like I said; barren, no trees, bushes, rocks, etc. I'm sure it was too far, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Andrzej: Yes magazines are important, thanks for reminding me. I had a similar situation to yours on my last hunt. I was cursing the 3 round 300wm magazines. Glad I didn't have non-detachable.

Papaclaude: I agree that 200m is the limit that most people can shoot. I have one rifle (chinese m14) that I can confidently shoot past that, but I need more practice on everything else. I have come to realize that almost everyone that brags about long shots are either full of it, or can't judge distance. I had one guy tell me about shooting a coyote in the head at 1600m. Ha, that didn't happen. I'll believe long range shots when I see them.

c-fbmi: I once shot a gopher with my SVT-40, boy was that something. I couldn't believe my eyes as I watched the result. I don't think you would believe it if I told you, because I still don't.

Lets talk bullets! Previously for the 30-06 I used Winchester power max bonded. I wasn't too impressed by it. What should I be looking for? SP, BTHP, HP? PSP? If 165gr are good enough for elk, then I'll go with that (vs the 180gr) and take advantage of less drop and recoil. This is one of the most popular cartridges, is there much point in reloading? I've had good experiences with Federal and Hornady ammunition, should I stick with these, or try something else? Lets say I do with Hornady, interlock, gmx, sst, eld-x? Can someone explain which is better for elk?

Now I got to decide if I will keep the bushnell banner scope on the blr, or swap it to the VOMZ I have lying around. Haven't been a fan of Bushnells as I've had a couple Banners seize up and break while in storage. My dad would sight in his rifle every year, I sometimes wonder if cheap scopes were the culprit as he never spent much on scope. The VOMZ has the dragonov recticle, and that came in really handy on the 300wm due to the range finding ability.
 
c-fbmi said:
I am going to tell you exactly what I would do in your situation, and you can take away what ever you want from it.

Go to a store where you can get the best deal on ammo, buy $400 worth of the same brand and preferably the same lot of 30-06 with 165 gn soft point bullet........DO NOT BUY PREMIUM AMMO, it is nothing but a waste of money in a 30-06. This should get you about 10 boxes of ammo give or take. Now take your rifle and ammo out and sight it absolutely dead on center X @ 25 yds. Anyone can do this very accurately and with less wasted ammo than starting at 100 yds/mtrs. Now you have your rifle sighted in with your ammo for approx. 250-260 yds and you will be point plank to about 320 yds...........Now put 1 box away for hunting and go practice at different ranges from 50-400 yds if you have the range capability to do so, with the rest of your ammo. If you can afford it buy more of the same ammo, go shoot gophers and jack rabbits and badgers and coyotes or what ever your indigenous varmints are. Do this all summer with all the ammo you can afford to burn and come elk time you will be not only be properly gunned, you will also have a lot of shooting under your belt and a great deal of confidence in your rifle and ammo and most importantly your ability.

I can tell you it is very satisfying to swat a gopher at a couple hundred yards with an '06 and watch him come unglued like he swallowed a grenade...............a good sight-in and some practice and before you know it you'll be doing this 3-4 out of 5 gophers at anything from 100-300 yds. One little tip.........from 75-200 mtrs hold where the gopher meets the ground cause you'll be hitting 2-4" high over those ranges.
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I'm going to take this advice. It wasn't meant for me, but thanks!
 
c-fbmi said:
I am going to tell you exactly what I would do in your situation, and you can take away what ever you want from it.

Go to a store where you can get the best deal on ammo, buy $400 worth of the same brand and preferably the same lot of 30-06 with 165 gn soft point bullet........DO NOT BUY PREMIUM AMMO, it is nothing but a waste of money in a 30-06. This should get you about 10 boxes of ammo give or take. Now take your rifle and ammo out and sight it absolutely dead on center X @ 25 yds. Anyone can do this very accurately and with less wasted ammo than starting at 100 yds/mtrs. Now you have your rifle sighted in with your ammo for approx. 250-260 yds and you will be point plank to about 320 yds...........Now put 1 box away for hunting and go practice at different ranges from 50-400 yds if you have the range capability to do so, with the rest of your ammo. If you can afford it buy more of the same ammo, go shoot gophers and jack rabbits and badgers and coyotes or what ever your indigenous varmints are. Do this all summer with all the ammo you can afford to burn and come elk time you will be not only be properly gunned, you will also have a lot of shooting under your belt and a great deal of confidence in your rifle and ammo and most importantly your ability.

I can tell you it is very satisfying to swat a gopher at a couple hundred yards with an '06 and watch him come unglued like he swallowed a grenade...............a good sight-in and some practice and before you know it you'll be doing this 3-4 out of 5 gophers at anything from 100-300 yds. One little tip.........from 75-200 mtrs hold where the gopher meets the ground cause you'll be hitting 2-4" high over those ranges.
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A recipe for success if there ever was one!!!!
 
c-fbmi said:
I am going to tell you exactly what I would do in your situation, and you can take away what ever you want from it.

Go to a store where you can get the best deal on ammo, buy $400 worth of the same brand and preferably the same lot of 30-06 with 165 gn soft point bullet........DO NOT BUY PREMIUM AMMO, it is nothing but a waste of money in a 30-06. This should get you about 10 boxes of ammo give or take. Now take your rifle and ammo out and sight it absolutely dead on center X @ 25 yds. Anyone can do this very accurately and with less wasted ammo than starting at 100 yds/mtrs. Now you have your rifle sighted in with your ammo for approx. 250-260 yds and you will be point plank to about 320 yds...........Now put 1 box away for hunting and go practice at different ranges from 50-400 yds if you have the range capability to do so, with the rest of your ammo. If you can afford it buy more of the same ammo, go shoot gophers and jack rabbits and badgers and coyotes or what ever your indigenous varmints are. Do this all summer with all the ammo you can afford to burn and come elk time you will be not only be properly gunned, you will also have a lot of shooting under your belt and a great deal of confidence in your rifle and ammo and most importantly your ability.

I can tell you it is very satisfying to swat a gopher at a couple hundred yards with an '06 and watch him come unglued like he swallowed a grenade...............a good sight-in and some practice and before you know it you'll be doing this 3-4 out of 5 gophers at anything from 100-300 yds. One little tip.........from 75-200 mtrs hold where the gopher meets the ground cause you'll be hitting 2-4" high over those ranges.
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This is exactly what I do with .308 but 150 gr. Great advice you're getting here people.
 
kaskirov said:
Papaclaude: I agree that 200m is the limit that most people can shoot. I have one rifle (chinese m14) that I can confidently shoot past that, but I need more practice on everything else. I have come to realize that almost everyone that brags about long shots are either full of it, or can't judge distance. I had one guy tell me about shooting a coyote in the head at 1600m. Ha, that didn't happen. I'll believe long range shots when I see them.
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Yep - I had one guy tell me he saw a guy make a one-shot kill, offhand, on a moose , with a 458 WM. I asked him where the guy aimed. The ever-popular "top of the hump". I quipped "Must have been one tall mother of a moose. A 458 will drop almot 20 feet at 700 yds." Had another guy tell me he could easily make 600 yd. shots with a BAR in 7mm. We went out to a sand pit, where I measured 365 m. He said "That's more like 1000 yards." "Nope, 365." He proceeded to fire a group, got about 18-24", around 8" low, IIRC off the hood of his truck. He had a 4-12X scope. Can't remember the brand. I made the bullseye bigger, so I could see it, and proceeded to group about 6" with my G3,in the bull, with the combat sight, firing prone.
 
guntech said:
I didn't say anything was wrong with the 8mm... I said forget the 8mm...

He is having trouble with scoped rifles and long range and does not want a scope on his surplus 8mm.

He already has two scoped commercial rifles that will kill an elk just fine... why use a military surplus 8mm with open sights? So I said forget the 8mm...
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Forgive me. I was having some wobbly-pops.

It seems the general consensus is to utilize the 30-06 BLR.
 
Bartledan said:
I'm going to take this advice. It wasn't meant for me, but thanks!
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BD..........as with any advice I may choose to post on these sites, it's there for anyone who may benefit from it if their situation is similar to that of the OP and his/her question. This advice works very well if per chance you do an away hunt and your rifle is lost and you have to borrow or buy another. Shoot 1/2 dozen shots at 25 yds/mtrs get dead center for 3 shots and go hunting..........you will never miss because of a sight in deficiency.
 
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What about a range finder? I find distances over 250 yards difficult to judge, especially flat featureless ground. Unless you are using one of the ultra flat shooting cartridges with high bc bullets, you're going to experience drastic drop beyond 300 yards.
 
Try some different brands of ammo. Federal Fusion is a bonded bullet and 'economical'. If it were me, I'd stick to better bullets first. Can give the Fusion, a 165 Accubond, Partition and TTSX a go. That would be my selections.
 
If I read the OP correctly, he is recoil shy. I can fully understand that.

It also sounds like you're a bit pressed for funds. The first three rifles you mention are almost all identical in power/performance so choose the rifle that fits you best and that you can shoot well.

You say you are getting into hand loading because of the 8x57 Yugo Mauser. Well a set of 30-06 dies can be had for around $35 and it uses the same shell head holder.

The 30-06 would likely be my first choice but being a Browning it will be a FUSSY DUCK concerning ammunition and commercial ammo is expensive. Spend the cash on PREMIUM 150 grain bullets instead, preferably of Monolithic design. They aren't cheap but are usually very accurate and perform as well as they shoot. Browning barrels are ball burnished and are either heavy foulers or they just don't foul at all in my limited experience. That's one of the reasons I like to stay away from them. Yes, there are exceptions but I haven't run across one.

OP, you should easily be able to get 2900 - 3000 feet per second with several different powders that would be suitable for all three of your rifles. That translates to about 12 inches of drop at 300yds and about twice that at 400yds.

Now, I didn't see what type of scope you bought or more important the type of reticle. This is where you have to do some homework. Learn how to use the thickness of your reticle to judge distance buy making a life size silhouette of the neck/chest/shoulder area of the game you will be hunting. I go to staples and get a roll of dark brown corrugated cardboard and cut it out. This also works later as a great target. Don't draw any circles on this target, draw leg outlines for realism. This is about the best way to range find I know, other than an electronic range finder.

Now, I am almost willing to bet you were shooting either off hand or from an unstable position. Make up a set of shooting/walking sticks and learn how to aim from that type of support. Not as easy as it sounds. Bipods attached to the rifles are a pain in the butt to carry around but fine from a blind.

You need to shoot more. I know that if you're buying ammo that is expensive at the very least.

Take Nowarningshot's advice, save your funds for more important things like reloading components, food, fuel for your hunt and of course more practice sessions.

The big thing about practice is you will learn where the sweet spot in accuracy starts after a certain amount of rounds fired and where it breaks off. Each rifle is completely different from the other.

Also, learn where your rifle shoots from a COLD barrel. One of the biggest mistakes hunters make is to take their rifles to the range to sight them in and completely ignore where the first shot impacts. I have always felt this was strange because as often as not, it's the first shot that makes 95% of the kills. You very seldom find a game animal that is willing to let you take a few "warming" rounds to get to the sweet spot the scope has adjusted for. If you want your first shot to count, set your scope for that shot.

Pre foul your bore before the hunt. Don't clean again until the season is over.

All of this is just IMHO of course. I find it all works well for me.
 
if a was you
which one is the lighter the .308 ph or 30-06 blr ?
take the one weight less go buy 150gn for .308 or 165gn for a 30-06 federal fusion ammo and go to the range and zero it to 200M
which scope do you use ?
 
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