Webley & Scott No.1 Double Action Revolver - Serial # 75 - Auction

Zircarg

Zircarg

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I purchased a Webley & Scott today on a US online auction believing the revolver to be antique class under Canadian law. It was listed as follows:

This revolver is basically an RIC No. 1 in scarce factory nickel finish with flat butt and lanyard ring. Features finely checkered walnut grips with engraved escutcheon, six shot and double action. These large frame, large caliber pocket revolvers were very popular as they offered superb takedown power at a small price. Has all proper British proofs. Only visible serial number we can find is under the barrel (75). No makers stamped anywhere we can see; in fact the only stamp visible is the .442 caliber on left side of frame. Gun indexes and locks up perfectly, single and double action. Strong rifled bore with usual black powder abrasions. Gun retains approximately 60% original factory nickel with the average age spotting. Varnish walnut grips are excellent to near mint. Fine little all original, big bore English pocket revolver.

Manufacturer: Webley & Scott
Model 1878
Serial Number 75
Caliber: .442
Barrel Length: 3-3/8"
FFL Status: Antique


There don't appear to be the standard "winged bullet" markings on it.

I believed that due to the calibre, low serial number and being a model 1878 it would be well within the Canadian acceptable parameters as an antique.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks.
 
Zircarg said:
I purchased a Webley & Scott today on a US online auction believing the revolver to be antique class under Canadian law. It was listed as follows:

This revolver is basically an RIC No. 1 in scarce factory nickel finish with flat butt and lanyard ring. Features finely checkered walnut grips with engraved escutcheon, six shot and double action. These large frame, large caliber pocket revolvers were very popular as they offered superb takedown power at a small price. Has all proper British proofs. Only visible serial number we can find is under the barrel (75). No makers stamped anywhere we can see; in fact the only stamp visible is the .442 caliber on left side of frame. Gun indexes and locks up perfectly, single and double action. Strong rifled bore with usual black powder abrasions. Gun retains approximately 60% original factory nickel with the average age spotting. Varnish walnut grips are excellent to near mint. Fine little all original, big bore English pocket revolver.

Manufacturer: Webley & Scott
Model 1878
Serial Number 75
Caliber: .442
Barrel Length: 3-3/8"
FFL Status: Antique


There don't appear to be the standard "winged bullet" markings on it.

I believed that due to the calibre, low serial number and being a model 1878 it would be well within the Canadian acceptable parameters as an antique.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Is it marked "Webley & Scott" or Webley & Son"? Big difference.

IIRC, "Webley and Son" became "Webley and Scott" in late 1897. There aren't many Webley and Scott revolvers that will qualify as prescribed antiques in Canada, if there are any at all. The winged bullet marking was a "webley & son" trademark that was discontinued under "Webley & Scott".
 
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IMO: If you are not a 100% sure of it's status bring it into the country using an import/ export company. if it's a prohib they won't bring it in. If your having troubles figuring it out imagine how customs is going to deal with it.
 
I'm don't know if there are any Webley & Scott guns that qualify as prescribed antiques because of the date the company was formed.

You can call the CFP people and get them to connect you to the RCMP firearms identification branch. Once you get through, tell the tech you are thinking of purchasing a revolver from the US and want to check if it would have antique status in Canada. At one time they would tell you over the phone quite quickly but that wasa while ago. They will probably ask for your PAL number and enter a record of the conversation/firearm against your PAL record.

Edit to add: I see that I missed the part in the first post that says there is no maker's markings on the revolver. If you can find a way to prove it really is a Webley it might still qualify as an antique. But don't say it is made by "Webley and Scott" for reasons touched on earlier.
 
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I agree. Do not attempt in bringing it into the country based on what's posted here. Due to my ignorance of Webley & Scott revolvers, I have no useful info to post about the revolver. But it's either an antique or a prohib & you better find out asap before moving it.
 
Thanks all. I did contact the RCMP Firearms Centre and request an antique letter, sending them the lot pics. I also contacted the auction house and indicated not to ship until I can sort things out. The RCMP responded that the revolver doesn't have any identifying Webley markings and so without additional information, they can't deem it either a Webley or an antique. I've requested further information from the seller but I suspect I will end up consigning it in their (Morphy) next firearm auction in June. Morphy identifies the piece as a model 1878 Webley & Scott No. 1 double action...similar to an RIC with 60% nickel remaining. I've learned my lesson to only buy from Canadian auctions from now on. At least I can resell it if things don't pan out.
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Another thing to be aware of is that Belgian makers made RIC No1 pistols well into the 1900s. Many of them were ordered from them by UK builders who promptly stamped their company names onto the flat on top of the barrel. Usually there will be both Belgian as well as UK acceptance stamps on the barrel, reciever and back face of the cylinder. No other marks. The acceptance marks, if present, can be used to help date Belgian made revolvers because they made changes to them right around 1898.

If the pistol was actually made in the UK, which I doubt because of the shape of the ejector rod end, there will be a record of it. Joel Black in the UK has the remaining records and has a book out with the lists of numbers and how to identify these great old pistols as antiques under Canadian regulation.

The US seller was likely referring to US antique status legislation when referring to it as an "antique." Different nation, different rules. In the UK, all No 1 RIC style revolvers are classified as antiques to my knowledge.
 
That gun is pre 1898 and ANTIQUE 100% its british made and im pretty sure its a very early PRE RIC webley or british made Webley Pre RIC COPY!
Webley they used that pointed trigger sear.
The guns and very early gun going by the sticking out cylinder notchs as well.

A lot of the early webley frames were sold to other british gun makers to finish the guns the way they wanted but it could be a copy to.

still that all said its still a risk importing a gun with no ID marks and no makers name and no way to prove who made it.
but as long as its in a OK caliber like 450 or 442 then its antique by age and by caliber going by design .
you can see the british proofmarks on the barrels side and on the cylinder if you know what to look for .

if I bought it id just use that home made antique letter you see on cgn.

Its a PRE RIC by design I sent the picture to a buddy whos a webley expert and author lets see what he says......

PM sent to OP...
 
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I clicked on the pic and it took me to the rest on photo bucket of the gun its stamped 442 so no problem caliber wise
and as dingus said with the sticking out cylinder notches its an early gun .
any stampings on the rear of the cylinder? But it still a risk with out definitive markings
Hopefully Dingus's friend can help you out Nice looking little gun I have not talked to the verifiers network techs. in a long time so don't know
who you would contact there now. Hope it works out for you
 
What you have is a David Bentley Revolver Cal.44 Barrel 3 inches Made circa 1880 Address maybe engraved on the top strap
from what I can tell any pics of the top strap .Any help I can be PM me I have a pic of it in one of my books
 
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Fig 1V/27 is a picture of the same revolver, dated 1878-1880. This is from the book "Webley Revolvers" an authoritative reference on webley revolvers. Might be of help
 
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