*** CZ 858 March Update ***

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Cameron SS said:
Tyler Durden said:
So, let me understand; if I own a non-restricted CZ 858 and I put that Magpul grip on it with the laser engraved Punisher skull, then list it here on the EE with the heading "WTS: selling my CZ 858 Punisher special", I am potentially violating the law by selling a prohibited, converted-automafic, not covered by the amendment and lacking an FRT because I didn't notify the RCMP of the new "model name"...? Do I have this right?
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<...snip...>

So then to answer your question, we have no idea. We have no idea if the RCMP would want to create a new FRT for a single custom firearm. If you were a firearms business in the business of for profit manufacturing or remanufacturing of firearms, it would probably be treated differently then if you are just selling a firearm you modified for your own purposes, and then no longer wanted to own.

Here is the tougher question, that we also don't know the answer to. IF you took one of the legal 858s and legally modified it with either the substitution of legal parts or legal custom engraving, such that it now exactly matched the FRT for the 'SPARTAN', are you now in possession of a prohibited firearm?

If the police found your "punisher", they would not find an FRT for it, your evidence would be that it was legally purchased, and the police would have no evidence to the contrary.
However, if the police found your 'spartanized' 858, they would find an FRT for the Spartan, and despite your evidence that it is a legally modified standard 858, they would have reasonable and probably grounds to lay charges, your firearm would be seized and guess where it would be sent for investigation to determine if it was or wasn't a 'Spartan' or a modified 'legal 858'.
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I feel that the above is critical and should be emphasis. Now that an FRT exists for a 'Spartan' model, the FRT classifies it as prohibited, and the end result would not play out in the owner's favour. I've said it before, it's been said by many others here - Irrespective of the legal ground one stands on, the Process is the Punishment.
 
This whole situation brings a few old Latin legal chestnuts and other sayings to mind;

ratio decidendi est repugnat ratio legis - Reasoning for the decision is incompatible with the reasoning of law.

natura non facit saltum ita nec lex - Nature does not make a leap, thus neither does the law.

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - When the republic is at its most corrupt, the laws are most numerous.

potentia corrumpit, potestatem corrumpit absolute - Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

derint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear.


(This last one was reportedly a favourite of Caligula. And now apparently the Liberal Party as well. I can just see the RCMP putting this on their cars as their new motto...)
 
typical RCMP flexing their " we are right & we have the power! " b.s. what a joke. I hope that the ability to determine frt #'s and designations is stripped from them ASAP. Let's leave the wolves in charge on the hen house.
 
kodiakjack said:
"Oxford online dictionary defines..."

"...a google search produced..."


Who the #### is this guy?! Did they hire 12 year olds to respond to Wolverine?! God damnit what a siht show! I'm INFURIATED that my tax dollars pay these salaries. ####.
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MOPP4 said:
Ya lets use google stats for our official federal government report
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I googled "flat earth" and yielded 13,700,000 results. OMG, the Earth is flat!!!
 
At the end of the day.. if you voted for anybody but Conservative in the last election, you are part of the problem, and I know for a fact there are Turdeau supporters all over this forum.
I get there are other important issues, but the next election has several strong heritage and sport advocates (read responsible firearm owners) .. it's your duty to buy a party membership and vote for the leader you want to see at the top, and then vote for them in the next federal. It's the only way to affect real change.
https://donate.conservative.ca/membership
 
dfritter1 said:
But I think we're missing the point... if the marketing lingo is the biggest factor in classification, does this mean that if an AK is marketed/advertised as a Valmet, it's a Valmet? Because damn, that'd be one hell of a precedent to set.
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I like your thinking, lol... legally speaking, you'd be right!
 
The firearm of the design commonly known as the AK-47 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78 rifles, but including the:

(a) AK-74;
(b) AK Hunter;
(c) AKM;
(d) AKM-63;
(e) AKS-56S;
(f) AKS-56S-1;
(g) AKS-56S-2;
(h) AKS-74;
(i) AKS-84S-1;
(j) AMD-65;
(k) AR Model .223;
(l) Dragunov;
(m) Galil;
(n) KKMPi69;
(o) M60;
(p) M62;
(q) M70B1;
(r) M70AB2;
(s) M76;
(t) M77B1;
(u) M78;
(v) M80;
(w) M80A;
(x) MAK90;
(y) MPiK;
(z) MPiKM;
(z.1) MPiKMS-72;
(z.2) MPiKS;
(z.3) PKM;
(z.4) PKM-DGN-60;
(z.5) PMKM;
(z.6) RPK;
(z.7) RPK-74;
(z.8) RPK-87S;
(z.9) Type 56;
(z.10) Type 56-1;
(z.11) Type 56-2;
(z.12) Type 56-3;
(z.13) Type 56-4;
(z.14) Type 68;
(z.15) Type 79;
(z.16) American Arms AKY39;
(z.17) American Arms AKF39;
(z.18) American Arms AKC47;
(z.19) American Arms AKF47;
(z.20) MAM70WS762;
(z.21) MAM70FS762;
(z.22) Mitchell AK-22;
(z.23) Mitchell AK-47;
(z.24) Mitchell Heavy Barrel AK-47;
(z.25) Norinco 84S;
(z.26) Norinco 84S AK;
(z.27) Norinco 56;
(z.28) Norinco 56-1;
(z.29) Norinco 56-2;
(z.30) Norinco 56-3;
(z.31) Norinco 56-4;
(z.32) Poly Technologies Inc. AK-47/S;
(z.33) Poly Technologies Inc. AKS-47/S;
(z.34) Poly Technologies Inc. AKS-762;
(z.35) Valmet M76;
(z.36) Valmet M76 carbine;
(z.37) Valmet M78/A2;
(z.38) Valmet M78 (NATO) LMG;
(z.39) Valmet M82; and
(z.40) Valmet M82 Bullpup.


So yes, following the gun lab's logic, any AK manufactured on a semi-auto receiver which is NAMED "Valmet M78" or "Valmet Hunter" (with no other name on firearm, advertising or in the nomenclature submitted for an FRT) should be fine, as long as it's a "version" of an AK-type firearm and not necessarily manufactured by Valmet themselves. This is exactly the reverse of the argument being used against Wolverine here.

Read the law carefully... it doesn't state the exempted AK has to be manufactured by Valmet, it only states what the rifle needs to be called in order to obtain that prohib status exemption. It also implies that "Valmet M78" or "Valmet Hunter" can be a mere version of an AK-type rifle and not necessarily a make and model thereof (first sentence of the OIC can certainly be understood that way, as it doesn't elaborate further).

So, apparently whatever the importers/dealers call their imported firearms makes them a unique new item and, in the gun lab's own written words, it doesn't matter from what mass-produced firearm the receiver actually originated (interesting stuff!). They also seem to be big on "exemptions by name" (of a version), according to the letter posted... hence why the Spartan version of an exempted rifle is a no go for an exemption.

As such, I'm sure you can get manufacturers to stamp whatever you want on these semi-auto commercial AKs receivers being made in Russia, China and the US... and then advertise your newly manufactured product accordingly.


The pendulum should swing both ways, after all... lol. :rolleyes:
 
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It is a good argument,..under a better government.

I can see something like that being used to help push the disarmament agenda against us. "we need to close this LOOPHOLE that is being used to manufacture automatic AK47 assault rifles. Hey I bet a blanket prohibition on all auto loading firearms would do the trick!"
 
762mm said:
The firearm of the design commonly known as the AK-47 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78 rifles, but including the: (see list)

So yes, following the gun lab's logic, any AK manufactured on a semi-auto receiver which is NAMED "Valmet M78" or "Valmet Hunter" (with no other name on firearm, advertising or in the nomenclature submitted for an FRT) should be fine, as long as it's a "version" of an AK-type firearm and not necessarily manufactured by Valmet themselves. This is exactly the reverse of the argument being used against Wolverine here.

Read the law carefully... it doesn't state the exempted AK has to be manufactured by Valmet, it only states what the rifle needs to be called in order to obtain that prohib status exemption. It also implies that "Valmet M78" or "Valmet Hunter" can be a mere version of an AK-type rifle and not necessarily a make and model thereof (first sentence of the OIC can certainly be understood that way, as it doesn't elaborate further).

So, apparently whatever the importers/dealers call their imported firearms makes them a unique new item and, in the gun lab's own written words, it doesn't matter from what mass-produced firearm the receiver actually originated (interesting stuff!). They also seem to be big on "exemptions by name" (of a version), according to the letter posted... hence why the Spartan version of an exempted rifle is a no go for an exemption.

As such, I'm sure you can get manufacturers to stamp whatever you want on these semi-auto commercial AKs receivers being made in Russia, China and the US... and then advertise your newly manufactured product accordingly.


The pendulum should swing both ways, after all... lol. :rolleyes:
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So, a dealer here could theoretically get Norinco to crank out some AK-47s, stamp them as "Valmet M78-x", then sell them here as non-restricted Valmet variants? If that what you're saying? (maybe I got it wrong). It would be cool, but I don't that happening.
 
- Trying to understand the RCMP it is like understanding a woman on her period it is impossible lol ( joke !) imagine if the text was written by a female officer on her period !
 
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