Break Action Shotguns: Educate Me Please

the spank

the spank

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I have owned over/under and break action guns for most of my adult life but most never stayed with me long enough to see tens of thousands of rounds. . I have a Perazzi TM-1 that is 40 years old this year that I acquired last year and a Winchester 101 Pigeon that is 30 I have owned since new. Both are at the point of needing some TLC. Here is my question and forgive me for being dumb as I never got into how the systems on them work. Both lock up tight with no play or wiggle but the top levers are no longer right of centre but sit centre to barely left of centre and there is no resistance when opening the guns. The barrels will just fall open if I let them though the Perazzi is not nearly as free falling as the Winchester. The Perazzi is also missing the ejector spring(s) which I'd like replaced. Both guns are in very nice shape still with good bluing etc and still function and shoot very well. What kind of servicing/repair is needed to squeeze another 25 years or so out of them before my shooting career ends. I no longer shoot thousands of rounds/year. Last year I shot two flats at trap through the Perazzi and the year before I shot 4 1/2 through a Citori I have since sold. The Winchester was primarily my skeet and duck gun but I haven't shot skeet since 2011 and I only hunt waterfowl 3-6 times per season now so they aren't going to see any tremendous volume.
 
Cant comment on the Perazzi, can for the 101. The lever position becomes an issue when the barrel locking lug wears to the point that it bottoms out and no longer provides a spring loaded force against the recesses in the barrel block. Although your lever is left of centre, indicating some wear, it likely hasn't bottomed out. You can check this by removing the barrels, and looking into receiver face. There is a bar that is to the right of the centre bar running north/south along the bottom of the receiver, which if depressed will release the lever to its bottomed out position. Compare this to the position with the barrels in situ, and you can ascertain how much lever movement you have left. Note that the "bottomed out" position varies substantially from gun to gun...
As far as the free swinging barrels are concerned, if the gun is truly tight on face, then I don't think you have a problem...
 
I don't know that I am fully understanding what to check? I assume you mean where the lever sits when the receiver is without barrels inserted vs with barrels inserted. I know where the bar is you're speaking of to engage the locking block and return the cocking lever to the closed position as I have depressed it manually since new to transport the gun in the takedown case it was supplied with. I am going to post a few pictures and you can tell me if you think I should be concerned for some servicing or parts replacement. The gun locks up like a vault and I cannot move the barrels in the receiver no matter how much pressure I apply and the gun shoots no different than it did on day one, it just no longer has that resistance required to open or close it other than the force required to recock the hammers and ejectors.

Please excuse me if my terminologies are not correct, I plead ignorance....
Open position without barrels in receiver:


Closed position without barrels in receiver:


Closed position with barrels assembled:



Underside of monobloc:


Monobloc showing locking block slot:


Perazzi with barrel installed. Lever sits in same place with or without barrel installed.
 
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Here's a video that explains what is happening though I'm not suggesting you fix it yourself. ht tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXbrmmiSngw
 
So after seeing the numerous videos that showed up with your link it looks as if my guns could use a new locking block. Pretty straight forward stuff. I left an email with the Perazzi Canada rep to find out where to send the TM-1 and now to source someone in Canada for the 101.
 
Cant tell looking at the 101 whether there is a difference in the lever position in the two pics.The one with the barrel installed looks slightly right of centre, but it could be the pic. Once the locking lug fully bottoms out, you will start to get perceptible play if you try to break open the gun without the use of the lever - bad news... If the gun is still tight in this manner, you could continue to shoot the gun(s), and maybe get a few thousand rounds until it starts to get sloppy.
The locking lug is made of softer metal than the monoblock slot, such that it wears preferentially. To do the job right, the new lug is hand fitted to ensure a proper fit - there are lots of folks in the States (Midwest Guns, etc) that do this, finding someone in Canada might be more difficult.
 
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cosmic said:
Cant tell looking at the 101 whether there is a difference in the lever position in the two pics.The one with the barrel installed looks slightly right of centre, but it could be the pic. Once the locking lug fully bottoms out, you will start to get perceptible play if you try to break open the gun without the use of the lever - bad news... If the gun is still tight in this manner, you could continue to shoot the gun(s), and maybe get a few thousand rounds until it starts to get sloppy.
The locking lug is made of softer metal than the monoblock slot, such that it wears preferentially. To do the job right, the new lug is hand fitted to ensure a proper fit - there are lots of folks in the States (Midwest Guns, etc) that do this, finding someone in Canada might be more difficult.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Midwest won't take work from outside the US according to their website. I will probably check with Art's Gun Shop or Wrights.
 
Spank, try Steve Milton at Precision Arms, he is just north of Toronto at King City. He trained in England with one of the larger gun makers. Shotguns are his specialty. He can build you an over and under from scratch so he should be able to rebuild the 101. He has done work for me over the years without issue. Google Precision Arms and you will get all the contact info.
 
It sounds like your guns are just nicely broken in. Having the lever centred isn't a problem, because that's where they're supposed to be. If the barrels are tight to the face, the easy opening isn't an issue either.
 
In all the research I have done on the subject it is said once the lever reaches the 6 o'clock position the gun is due for a new locking block to ensure the top lever system does not get broken on recoil(at least in the Perazzi).
 
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I'm more familiar with English guns. On the best guns the engraving stops at the edge of the top lever, right at the 6-o'clock position. Some of these gentlemen will shoot more birds on driven shoots in a season than I'll likely get to shoot in my lifetime. Maybe the Italians have a weird way of doing things.
 
I've got several low mileage 101's of the same era (80's Winchoke). The positions of the levers, in both bottomed out position, and action closed position varies substantially from gun to gun. In particular the bottomed out position - its obvious that there is some final fitting to deal with tolerances.
In the end, using the lever position as the determinant of wear can be a bit subjective. However, if I'm looking at a used O/U with the lever at 6 oclock, I'm going to suspect high mileage until further inspection proves otherwise.
 
I estimate my 101 has around 50,000 rds through it with 10%+ heavy field loads and the remainder a mix of light/heavy target loads. The gun has been my primary skeet & waterfowl gun since 1987. Until 2012 it saw about 1500rds/year avg on the skeet field and 500 in the field for waterfowl & upland. It has been well taken care of but I figure it's probably time for a thorough inspection and servicing. Since 2012 it hasn't seen a skeet field and probably only 3-6 boxes of steel for waterfowl per season.
 
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