Attention BC Residents!

Ardent said:
BC is actually held as a model for conservation management in North America...
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Now there's a fine & proper JOKE!!

BC's "conservation management" is pretty much a Laughing Stock among the vast majority of Western NA jurisdictions.
NO population objectives or goals for fish and wildlife populations.
One of the most under-funded and under-staffed fish and wildlife management agencies in North America.
One of the only jurisdictions in North America without a dedicated funding model for wildlife management.
"Management" via Regulation rather than Science.
Ongoing population declines of serious concern.

That ain't "rhetoric" my friend, those are FACTS!

I happen to be a retired Biologist, with work experience throughout Western & Arctic Canada.
Hunting experience from the Arctic to Mexico.
Guiding experience throughout much of Western Canada.
So might be on the same page, or perhaps even just a tad more enlightened than a couple of well seasoned bush pilots (although I do salute you for your help over the past 50+ years...).
And while I can recognize your Buddy ain't "talkin' out of his ass" I can assure you, I most certainly am not either.

Again, this is NOT a political rally. This is NOT a call to vote for any particular Party.
And again, I would sincerely appreciate it if the attempts to make it so are dropped.

This IS a British Columbia Wildlife Federation Initiative.
Again, it has been designed to send the message that our Renewable Resources require realistic funding and management levels - to whatever flavor of government may be in place now and anytime into the future.
It is NOT offering support for the NDP by any means! In fact it offers NO support for ANY government party.
It only asks for support for our Wild Life & Wild Lands.

Too tough a concept??

Wondering...
Nog
 
OP... this is not the right place to vent hostility... and in fact the folks you are going at are very experienced in the BC Fish and Wildlife field. There is nothing wrong with petitioning the government for more support for wildlife in the province, but from an "outsider looking in"... your greatest concern should be the likelyhood of an NDP government... if you think things are grim now... that event will gut BC's hunting/wildlife heritage.
 
hoytcanon said:
OP... this is not the right place to vent hostility...
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Hostility? LOL!! Far from that Hoyt. Frustration perhaps that those you suggest "are very experienced in the BC Fish and Wildlife field" are so far removed in their opinions from the reality of the situation? Yup.

Outsider Looking In? Don't rightly know where you got that idea, but it too is rather Out There... :rolleyes:

Greatest concern the NDP getting in? Now there is even a better JOKE! Ain't going to happen - you know, I know it, and those reading this know it.

And perhaps that leads to the frustration I noted above. This initiative is Non-Partisan as stated.
Given the lack of performance in wildlife management by any and all governments that have held the chair, it is long overdue we sent them ALL a message to Get It Right!

Simple to me. I really don't understand the constant misguided attempts at turning that into an election matter??
Once again - it ain't...

Shakin' the ol' noggin again...
 
I have a sneaking suspicion you'd be entertaining to drink with Noggin. Lots of capitals, exclamation marks, bold, and underline there.

I'm actually also an outfitter and guide in BC, and didn't have an increased quota in the allocation decisions- which it's almost always forgotten were reversed anyhow. I also signed the resident's petition opposing the allocation changes. I hesitate to mention it as I figure I'll instantly go from a source of irritation to black listed mortal enemy, but what the heck. Where did you guide way back when, and what's become of the areas? Might provide me with background.

Where we strongly disagree is the management, nowhere else does more complex grizzly bear management in particular. The area I hunt has had hair snags and counts recently. Areas I fly are collared, and there's a very complex calculation done by the government biologists to determine harvest limits. I've been involved in this as a mere dumb pilot on woodland caribou projects further north and east, and have a vastly different impression of the efforts the government is engaged in that you do. BC is one of the few places helicopter culling wolves, as well, and that is not a light duty or cheap program.

Your tone is so alarmist it didn't jive with what I see on the ground, with a less doomsday and preaching take I'd be very interested in your initiative.
 
Nogg,
There are some very experienced members on here. Dismissing their point of view and only arguing your position with a belittling tone is counter productive to the message you are trying to get across.

IMHO
 
IronNoggin said:
Hostility? LOL!! Far from that Hoyt. Frustration perhaps that those you suggest "are very experienced in the BC Fish and Wildlife field" are so far removed in their opinions from the reality of the situation? Yup.

Outsider Looking In? Don't rightly know where you got that idea, but it too is rather Out There... :rolleyes:

Greatest concern the NDP getting in? Now there is even a better JOKE! Ain't going to happen - you know, I know it, and those reading this know it.

And perhaps that leads to the frustration I noted above. This initiative is Non-Partisan as stated.
Given the lack of performance in wildlife management by any and all governments that have held the chair, it is long overdue we sent them ALL a message to Get It Right!

Simple to me. I really don't understand the constant misguided attempts at turning that into an election matter??
Once again - it ain't...

Shakin' the ol' noggin again...
Click to expand...

You chose your CGN name well...

When I referred to an "outsider looking in," I was referring to myself as a non-resident with limited BC experience.

You are coming off angry and hostile... you clearly are unfamiliar with this community, but you chose to post here, so I assume that you are expecting support for your initiative... rude and angry behaviour is counter-productive to your goal.
 
hoytcanon said:
OP... this is not the right place to vent hostility... and in fact the folks you are going at are very experienced in the BC Fish and Wildlife field. There is nothing wrong with petitioning the government for more support for wildlife in the province, but from an "outsider looking in"... your greatest concern should be the likelyhood of an NDP government... if you think things are grim now... that event will gut BC's hunting/wildlife heritage.
Click to expand...

Still trying to find the "hostility" in what IN has said. The reality is that BC is criminally underfunded in resource enhancement. The NDP and the Liberals have both played the same game. There is political element as the election is coming up and while the NDP supports a ban on grizzly hunting (not sure if that is the party's official position but I imagine the sentiment is strong) the Liberals are chucking out a bone of 27M towards Cariboo enhancement. However, OP never raised the election and is simply asking for members to consider supporting a petition for a decent enhancement policy with money behind it.

Ardent, I agree that BC has the most fulsome hunting opportunities in NA. But you allude to access and yes, most of us can't charter a plane and go. If I could fly myself there I would.

Think about it this way, it cost me around $3,000 to go to hunting North of PG between gas, supplies, gear purchases etc. I will happily support a hunting line on my tax return where I show with receipts my expenditures going hunting. Now if a portion of my GST/PST expenditures were put back into conservation them we are getting somewhere. Lets not forget, that is on after tax income.

Maybe this post should be converted into a poll:

A) Should funding for BC wildlife enhancement be raised?

Or

B) Funding for BC wildlife enhancement is fine.

Make your choice.
 
Much better take on it VanIsle, and some folks need to visit other jurisdictions in North America before deciding BC is somehow in shambles. I actually regularly meet COs here, and they come when I call, even to extremely remote areas. That's something many here take for granted. I can actually get the regional biologist on the phone, and he knows what he's talking about and has actually been in the areas we're discussing. Many other provinces or states, good luck, and there's a fraction of the hunting opportunity.

I'm all for increased wildlife funding, just not the approach ironjoggin is pushing it.
 
hoytcanon said:
You chose your CGN name well...

When I referred to an "outsider looking in," I was referring to myself as a non-resident with limited BC experience.

You are coming off angry and hostile... you clearly are unfamiliar with this community, but you chose to post here, so I assume that you are expecting support for your initiative... rude and angry behaviour is counter-productive to your goal.
Click to expand...

I've been on CGN long enough to recognize rude and angry behaviour and this isn't it. Most other posters are supporting the initiative.
 
Ardent said:
Much better take on it VanIsle, and some folks need to visit other jurisdictions in North America before deciding BC is somehow in shambles. I actually regularly meet COs here, and they come when I call, even to extremely remote areas. That's something many here take for granted. I can actually get the regional biologist on the phone, and he knows what he's talking about and has actually been in the areas we're discussing. Many other provinces or states, good luck, and there's a fraction of the hunting opportunity.

I'm all for increased wildlife funding, just not the approach ironjoggin is pushing it.
Click to expand...

Appreciate that. So can you explain your approach?
 
hoytcanon said:
Exclamation points, caps, bold, comments of "joke" directed at individuals etc... equals "hostility."

We are all on the same side on this issue so don't get sidetracked.
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I will have to be careful with my exclamation marks in future. And probably periods. OP is not sidetracked.
 
VanIsleCam said:
I will have to be careful with my exclamation marks in future. And probably periods. OP is not sidetracked.
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So what, are you, this guys cheering section? I'm not the only one who interpreted his behavior as "angry or hostile."

As I said, everyone agrees that our wildlife and supports are worth a greater investment of our tax dollars.
 
VanIsleCam said:
I will have to be careful with my exclamation marks in future. And probably periods. OP is not sidetracked.
Click to expand...

Well we disagree there, Hoyt reads him right and there's no great mystery in that. The OP is screaming at us in forum speak that the end is near, and that things are in some dire straits. Whenever you get responses from people like, "I had no idea, signed." as has happened in response to this thread it should make anyone at least a little uneasy. I'm sure Noggin has the best intentions but using rhetoric and fear mongering to get people to a petition, makes me question things. I happen to be pretty familiar with some of the government programs too, which doubles my suspicion, as the realities are substantially different than the impressions his rhetoric in this thread makes on the uninitiated.

The reality in BC, and this is from a boots on the ground and involved perspective, is different from what Noggin is screaming. I'd also like to see increased investment in wildlife in BC, and anywhere, but I want to hear Noggin's step by step of what that means not just "DOOMED! Sign here. Bill them.". Yea I've seen the points he's offered and it has a lot of holes to fill, in the end I may well agreee with him enough to support the initiative if not his manner of conversing. I do remember recently having argued with people who were vehemently telling me BC will never do anything about wolves whilst we were in the middle of an intensive and expensive cull that even Miley Cyrus knew about, but many hunters here didn't. I've seen first hand the calf survival and predation reduction in the woodland herds, and a rather remarkable improvement that needs another twenty years of effort and investment.

Likewise I deal regularly with the government on grizzly and mountain goat on populations, if you read this thread alone you'd assume the government doesn't care and is doing nothing. It seems like a well intentioned concept with questionable claims and delivery.
 
By the way, Ontarians are very familiar with the provincial government raping wildlife licence revenues into the general coffers, they did the same thing with the OPSEU pension fund, almost bankrupting it until a joint committee took over management... they have also decimated the MNR in both field staff and overall budget.
 
hoytcanon said:
By the way, Ontarians are very familiar with the provincial government raping wildlife licence revenues into the general coffers, they did the same thing with the OPSEU pension fund, almost bankrupting it until a joint committee took over management... they have also decimated the MNR in both field staff and overall budget.
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Ok - so you deplore the tone of the exhortation despite witnessing the same in your home province?
 
Ardent said:
Well we disagree there, Hoyt reads him right and there's no great mystery in that. The OP is screaming at us in forum speak that the end is near, and that things are in some dire straits. Whenever you get responses from people like, "I had no idea, signed." as has happened in response to this thread it should make anyone at least a little uneasy. I'm sure Noggin has the best intentions but using rhetoric and fear mongering to get people to a petition, makes me question things. I happen to be pretty familiar with some of the government programs too, which doubles my suspicion, as the realities are substantially different than the impressions his rhetoric in this thread makes on the uninitiated.

The reality in BC, and this is from a boots on the ground and involved perspective, is different from what Noggin is screaming. I'd also like to see increased investment in wildlife in BC, and anywhere, but I want to hear Noggin's step by step of what that means not just "DOOMED! Sign here. Bill them.". Yea I've seen the points he's offered and it has a lot of holes to fill, in the end I may well agreee with him enough to support the initiative if not his manner of conversing. I do remember recently having argued with people who were vehemently telling me BC will never do anything about wolves whilst we were in the middle of an intensive and expensive cull that even Miley Cyrus knew about, but many hunters here didn't. I've seen first hand the calf survival and predation reduction in the woodland herds, and a rather remarkable improvement that needs another twenty years of effort and investment.

Likewise I deal regularly with the government on grizzly and mountain goat on populations, if you read this thread alone you'd assume the government doesn't care and is doing nothing. It seems like a well intentioned concept with questionable claims and delivery.
Click to expand...

So the BCWF is out to lunch?
 
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