Family heirloom, any info greatly appreciated

Bland

Bland

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This gun has been passed down in my cousin's family for generations. My knowledge of these guns is confined to a bit of surfing online. The name HELLINGHAUS is engraved just behind the hammer. Tried to give all the angles and figure there will be some knowledgable people on this forum who can fill in the background. This gun ( family lore says used in war of 1812) is a percussion cap type and from my limited search online would make it a gun manufactured more around 1840???? Perhaps it was a flintlock that was converted??? I was also wondering (it is not for sale) if it should be listed for insurance purposes as a separate item. Does it have enough value that requires that type of coverage? Thanks in advance.

Why the two triggers?
 
I reckon the two triggers means you have a set trigger set-up

If you #### it and pull one the hammer will be set to a hair trigger which is activated by the other.

There is a Frederick Hellinghaus listed as a gun maker in St Louis and operating in the 1840's-50s as a local competitor to Hawkens making Plains rifles.

He started out in Baltimore in 1832-1835.

Apparently Kit Carson carried one of his shotguns.

See link here for one that were at auction. The first one has the auctioneer estimate

http://www.icollector.com/Heavy-bar...nghaus-in-hand-held-die-stamps-The-r_i8788201

http://www.icollector.com/F-Hellinghaus-Plains-Rifle-Cal-44-SN-NVSN_i8681112

Lastly, here is a link to a PDF copy of American Gun Makers. He lists in this book albeit a short entry

https://archive.org/details/gunmaker00satt
 
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Nice piece of American firearms history. It's nice when firearms stay within a family. 2 years ago I had a Felix Settle half stock rifle from Barren County Kentucky. I posted about it on a US forum looking for information. I was contacted by a fellow from down in Kentucky who's wife is the great,great, great (I think I got the great's right, lol) granddaughter of Felix Settle. Anyhow, the gun is now back in Kentucky in the "hands" of family members.
 
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With that level of detail on the inlay and overall work it was clearly a very high end gun in it's day. Even then that sort of engraving and inlay work did not come cheap. So your early ancestor was clearly a fellow of means.
 
The back action lock would place the "build date" close to the 1850's at the earliest. That's when they became popular - just near the end of the percussion era (since cartridge guns started taking over). Also, the checkering is a (later) feature - would not typically see it on earlier 1800's builds (not unheard of, but rare).

The general style of the stock and trigger guard "looks" typical of the North Eastern US or even "Western Canada" (London Ontario was considered Western Canada in the 1850's) styles during the late percussion era - typically called a "target style rifle". However, since gunsmiths tended to "move west", unless you can pin down the builder and a date it's tough to determine exactly where a later percussion was actually built/sold/used.
 
Thanks so much for everyone's help on this. It is not in my family line as my cousin married into this family in the 50's. She was a real history buff and did a lot of research pertaining to the local area. This is the Hemmingford/Sherington area which borders Vermont. Their family has been farming here and the house I am sitting in as this is being typed was constructed in 1840 (back to hang out with family and make sugar). Primarily Irish immigrants. Not the same family as the first owner of this gun who settled around 1809 give or take. On the male side my cousin is a direct descendent of the first owner but this is not the place to get into the whole genealogy. There were skirmishes in this area during the War of 1812 as the States used Lake Champlain to invade Quebec. There is a museum in St. Jean sur Richelieu that covers this part of history. Probably how the family legend of this gun being used in in 1812 began. ( my doubts began once it became apparent this type of gun first appeared around 1840) There are roads in this area named after this family (Brownlee) and given the length of time they have occupied this area there are many, many cousins. They were successful farmers ( they were also timber framers and are responsible for many of the original barns built in this area) and this was not your basic hunting gun, as mentioned the engraving on this is elaborate and should elevate it in the value department. I could not get it to pop in the photograph but there was also a setter type dog engraved near the hammer. Not sure if people noticed but the engraving on the stock has a hound chasing a deer.

What sort of basic maintenance should I perform before my departure next week? My cousin is up to his ears trying to get ready for the upcoming season and simply does not have the time. Pretty interesting stuff, always enjoy coming back here.
 
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Nothing on the barrel. HELLINGHAUS is engraved not far back from the hammer and a previous poster has given some very detailed info on this gunsmith though.

powderman said:
Is there any name on the barrel?
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Just thought I would add, the trigger assembly must be in good shape as it is still crisp. The double trigger setup is as surmised, sets up hair trigger. It double cocks, the first #### being a 'safety' position.

Given the location it is very conceivable this gun was purchased in the States and brought into Quebec. This area was primarily english speaking until the last generation and interacted on a daily basis with their Vermont neighbours. Unmarked border crossings were still being used even when I was a kid (1960's) working summers on the farm. My uncle would call US border patrol inform them we were heading into Vermont to buy some kind of farm supplies and then let them know when were back in Hemmingford. Different and much simpler times.
 
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The name on the lock could be indicative of a few different things.

It was (common) for the hardware stores that sold the locks (which were available to the general public - just walked into the hardware store and picked one up along with some rope or nails) to put their names on them. Or the importer may have marked the lock - that was also "common".

It may have also been engraved by the builder (but less likely) in either their name or the name of the customer that the gun was sold to.

The lock may well have originally been produced in England or Belgium. Both countries exported boat loads of parts to the US during that time period.

Well I am not much more than a hobby builder of BP longrifles, I would not be surprised if this rifle was built in Vermont or New York (upstate). It is indicative of the stock shape, decoration etc of the time frame when the locks were popular.

This does look a little more fancy than a typical "bought at the hardware store complete/finished rifle", but it is possible that's how it was acquired and not a "custom build" for the original owner.

I have seen a couple of rifles of similar vintage and style/apparent quality sell in the 1000-1500 buck range (built by a Canadian named Soper). Now this rifle could be worth much more if the builder turned out to be "someone" or somewhat less if this simply came from "Hellinghaus Hardware".

Without having someone actually look at the piece I wouldn't mess with it at all. You could shave significant value by messing around with it. If it turned out to simply be a "nice old gun" then perhaps it would be worth getting it into shooting condition (if safe enough) and enjoying it. But you don't want to "oil away" a couple grand by fiddling with a rare piece...
 
Thanks for your advice on this, was not sure if a guy should do anything to to prevent rust or some other evil process to begin deteriorating this piece of history. I was not considering bringing her back, more concerned with maintaining what is there. Leave her be is the way to go then.

galamb said:
The name on the lock could be indicative of a few different things.

It was (common) for the hardware stores that sold the locks (which were available to the general public - just walked into the hardware store and picked one up along with some rope or nails) to put their names on them. Or the importer may have marked the lock - that was also "common".

It may have also been engraved by the builder (but less likely) in either their name or the name of the customer that the gun was sold to.

The lock may well have originally been produced in England or Belgium. Both countries exported boat loads of parts to the US during that time period.

Well I am not much more than a hobby builder of BP longrifles, I would not be surprised if this rifle was built in Vermont or New York (upstate). It is indicative of the stock shape, decoration etc of the time frame when the locks were popular.

This does look a little more fancy than a typical "bought at the hardware store complete/finished rifle", but it is possible that's how it was acquired and not a "custom build" for the original owner.

I have seen a couple of rifles of similar vintage and style/apparent quality sell in the 1000-1500 buck range (built by a Canadian named Soper). Now this rifle could be worth much more if the builder turned out to be "someone" or somewhat less if this simply came from "Hellinghaus Hardware".

Without having someone actually look at the piece I wouldn't mess with it at all. You could shave significant value by messing around with it. If it turned out to simply be a "nice old gun" then perhaps it would be worth getting it into shooting condition (if safe enough) and enjoying it. But you don't want to "oil away" a couple grand by fiddling with a rare piece...
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A piece in a museum would see the metal and wood being treated with Renaissance Wax as a protection and preservative. A home based firearm would likely benefit from the proper "usual" steps being done that should be done to any firearm during its life. Namely a light oiling of the metal parts inside and out. And for the stock a light rub down with a small amount of linseed oil or a good quality furniture wax to protect the wood and inlaid metal parts from finger print acids that would occur during handling.

It may not be a popular idea among some collectors but I strongly feel that firearms of this sort which have been "in the family" since first obtained are/were supposed to be properly tended as part of their time of ownership. And that "proper tending" is the sort of oiling and possibly waxing that would be done as if it were being prepared to actually use the firearm. And certainly to just ignore it and allow it to rust would be abuse.

It's different for antiques that are dug up at battle field sites and similar. Those are historical artifacts and should be treated in a different manner. But this is a long term family firearm. What I would do is take pains to not actually rub oil or wax in so vigorously that the rags or patches come away stained more than with some minimal corrosion stains. That's not your choice since it's not your firearm. But using enough proper oil and/or wax to prevent any short term future corrosion is a valid option IMO. And it's not like it will not have been treated in this same manner since it's use for early hunting or those raids.
 
BCRider said:
A piece in a museum would see the metal and wood being treated with Renaissance Wax as a protection and preservative. A home based firearm would likely benefit from the proper "usual" steps being done that should be done to any firearm during its life. Namely a light oiling of the metal parts inside and out. And for the stock a light rub down with a small amount of linseed oil or a good quality furniture wax to protect the wood and inlaid metal parts from finger print acids that would occur during handling.

It may not be a popular idea among some collectors but I strongly feel that firearms of this sort which have been "in the family" since first obtained are/were supposed to be properly tended as part of their time of ownership. And that "proper tending" is the sort of oiling and possibly waxing that would be done as if it were being prepared to actually use the firearm. And certainly to just ignore it and allow it to rust would be abuse.

It's different for antiques that are dug up at battle field sites and similar. Those are historical artifacts and should be treated in a different manner. But this is a long term family firearm. What I would do is take pains to not actually rub oil or wax in so vigorously that the rags or patches come away stained more than with some minimal corrosion stains. That's not your choice since it's not your firearm. But using enough proper oil and/or wax to prevent any short term future corrosion is a valid option IMO. And it's not like it will not have been treated in this same manner since it's use for early hunting or those raids.
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Excellent advice. Thanks very much. We are tapping right now and the syrup is coming nicely. Heading home with a few gallons ( actually many), so I will be a very popular guy upon arrival.
 
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