7.62x51 Nato Ammo surplus available?
- Thread starter Nightstalker
- Start date
PitBull1973
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Right Behind You
If the brass has the NATO cross on it then it is NATO standard. Period. Not all NATO ammo are the same and you can find variation between nations, which is why some NATO round have the NATO cross but do not have the NATO interchangeability symbol on them.
General Brock
Regular
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Since the topic of NATO spec and non-NATO spec 7.62x51 ammo is up for discussion, let me broadcast a warning about the Brazilian CBC that periodically surfaces. This stuff is untrustworthy As-Is. The Brazilian plant loaded a production lot that was rejected. The lot was sold to Chile, where it was remanufactured. That was found to be wrong and rejected. This ammo is packaged in cute cardboard boxes of 20 or 25, labelled with an ink stamp bearing the word "REENGASTADO". The word is an archaic form meaning something like re-inserted.
This ammo next appeared in the US where it promptly was implicated in a couple of full-auto explosions. There was a class-action lawsuit against those involved, and all stocks were supposed to be destroyed. Some of that ammo got into Canada. I have several hundred rounds which was re-remanufactured with known powder. Another form likely to be encountered is packages of Gold Cross reloaded with proper powder and sold (quite correctly) as consistent bulk target ammo.
Don't shoot CBC ammo As-Is. You have been warned.
This ammo next appeared in the US where it promptly was implicated in a couple of full-auto explosions. There was a class-action lawsuit against those involved, and all stocks were supposed to be destroyed. Some of that ammo got into Canada. I have several hundred rounds which was re-remanufactured with known powder. Another form likely to be encountered is packages of Gold Cross reloaded with proper powder and sold (quite correctly) as consistent bulk target ammo.
Don't shoot CBC ammo As-Is. You have been warned.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
My LMT loves this stuff:
http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_108_110&products_id=3658
This is the one! Good deal too. Will shoot great in any .308/7.62 gun you have. Brass is mil spec meaning it's a bit thicker so case capacity is a bit less. Perfect to reload for semi autos, even though I've used mine in bolt guns.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
This is what I've read also but I didn't see it in the ones I've bought. M80 goes to military contracts and XM80 is sold on the civilian market. This isn't Federal Gold Medal ammo that's for sure. Small dings on the cases are mostly from being bulk packaged. No large dents, cracked necks or significantly out of rounds in the ones I've had. It is, after all, surplus ammo.
I think I'm reading your post right, if so, then it's actually the opposite. The Interchangeability Symbol is everything, the NATO Design Cross means absolutely nothing.
The Interchangeability Symbol:
Is the only valid mark that the ammo has actually passed NATO testing.
A NATO Cross design mark:
Has no standardization reference and does not in any way indicate compliance to a NATO standard, STANAG or MOPI. But it 'understood' or 'assumed' to be interchangeable with no guarantee. It is the headstamp found on ammo supplied to NATO contracts. The Hirtenberger 7.62x51 ammo supplied to Netherlands and UK bear that cross, the Austrian local production does not. It's the same NATO qualified ammo.
The NATO Cross design mark does not even hold a copyright or trademark. A Russian manufacturer, or any commercial vendor could put it on its commercial headstamp if it wanted to and it would be 'valid'.
Sorry in advance if I didn't interpret your post correctly.
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Ammo cannot have the interchangeability symbol on them if they do not meet NATO standard in the first place, because yes, there are standards. Each ammo type have publications that precisely indicate what pressure, velocity, extraction strenght, accuracy etc should have. You have to realize that because different nato nation use different firearms, they will have different ammo requirement and needs. For exemple, C79 Elcan scope are are made to work with the ballistic of the 5.56 C77 ball. If you put some different 5.56 without the interchangeability symbol yes it will fire and work but it won't meet the requirement of the C77 ball. The symbol means that that it matches close enough those requirements.
I think I'm reading your post right, if so, then it's actually the opposite. The Interchangeability Symbol is everything, the NATO Design Cross means absolutely nothing.
The Interchangeability Symbol:
Is the only valid mark that the ammo has actually passed NATO testing.
A NATO Cross design mark:
Has no standardization reference and does not in any way indicate compliance to a NATO standard, STANAG or MOPI. But it 'understood' or 'assumed' to be interchangeable with no guarantee. It is the headstamp found on ammo supplied to NATO contracts. The Hirtenberger 7.62x51 ammo supplied to Netherlands and UK bear that cross, the Austrian local production does not. It's the same NATO qualified ammo.
The NATO Cross design mark does not even hold a copyright or trademark. A Russian manufacturer, or any commercial vendor could put it on its commercial headstamp if it wanted to and it would be 'valid'.
Sorry in advance if I didn't interpret your post correctly.
Well the interchangable symbol is only applied to the crate, not the cartridge itself, so you are barking up the wrong tree again.
If you want too look something up, find the US NATO brass specs for 7.62NATO and that might help you understand the difference.
Hirt being 30 grains lighter, much softer then IVI, and lacking the NATO cross should have explained the reasons it's not up to NATO standards...
It's also designated on the crate that it is made for the STG 58. I don't think it would run very well in an M240.
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The M240 regularly ran on M80 ball + tracer, which is a 146 grain projectile. I think you will find it would run rather well on the Hirtenburger.
Candocad.
Candocad.
Brass is too soft and too thin, nothing to do with the projectile...you would have torn rims and head separations running it through an M240.
I run it through my M14 once, then reload and use it in bolt guns. Even once through the M14 beats it up. The 1f IVI was already run through an M240, it's a ##### to size the first time it's so blown out. I'll run it 7-8 times through the M14 and even then it doesn't show the wear the Hirt does after a single firing. Hirt is lighter then Win commercial brass, which is some of the thinnest brass you can get.
M80 ball is 7.62NATO. It's designed to be run through everything the US is equiped with.
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IVI once fired brass is available from Xreload, Fed Lake City XM80 ammo is available per the link above and is similar NATO spec brass.
The Hirt is good ammo and good brass, very close to Norma Match in weight that I have here, it will handle a lot of reloads in a bolt gun just fine.
If you get the IVI make sure you have a heavy press and use lots of lube. The first sizing is a #####.
I have a coffee can full of 7.62 ball of which I don't recognize the head stamps. Most have the circle cross symbol. Some have black lacquered primers.
I've been reluctant to shoot it not knowing the origin. Should I be?
M
I've been reluctant to shoot it not knowing the origin. Should I be?
M
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Depends what you want to achieve. A bullet hose to make noise and empty cases? Or repeatable bullseyes? FWIW, what are the headstamps? There is enough knowledge here to advise. But, a mixed lot of ammo is not worth much except making fun.
