Range Day with my MV and Baer

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Olyar15

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So, the weather finally co-operated after a horrible winter, and I was able to get my MV and Les Baer AR15 to the range to try out some handloads. I got some Varget and 69gr SMKs so I loaded up a bunch to see whether either of these guns like this stuff.

So first, the results. Not quite what I was hoping for.

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Target at 100 yards. MV on the left of the sheet, Baer on the right. Basically, I shot two 5-round groups of each powder load starting from 24gr of Varget and going up by 0.3gr. For the Baer, it looks like right around 25.0gr of Varget should work well. Ignore the flier on the second 24.9gr group, that was totally my fault.

For the MV, none of the loads really worked. Not sure what the issue is. However, comparing the two rifles, the Baer is definitely easier to shoot. First off, the MV is quite light, probably around 7lb for just the rifle (don't have a very good scale so I can't weigh precisely). With the scope, it is well under 10lbs. That, and the lack of a muzzle brake means the gun has much more recoil. Also, the CTR stock just doesn't work well with a rear rest. On the other hand, the Baer is a pig, easily 12 or 13 lbs, maybe more. That and the integral muzzle brake does mean that recoil is quite tame. Plus the PRS stock is much better suited to a rear rest, resulting in a much more stable platform to shoot.

Also, the Geissele trigger on the Baer is much better than the Timney on the MV. Of course, I've been completely spoiled by the trigger on my Anschutz 1827f, and both triggers are crap in comparison. Maybe I'll have to shoot several hundred rounds through my other ARs and Tavor to get used to what really bad triggers are like. Also, the scopes are different: Sightron 6-24x50 on the MV, Sightron 36x42 on the LB.

Here you can see that the CTR stock on the MV doesn't really work on a rear rest:
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Compare this to the Les Baer:
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On the other hand, the MV is really compact with the collapsible stock. It fits (barely) in the soft case that comes with the Tavor. Compare that to the hard case I use to transport the Baer:
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I'm hoping that more work on handloads will improve the accuracy of the MV, plus more trigger time will help me get used to the rifle. Functionally, I had some FTF with one of the mags when used on the MV, but after switching to a LAR mag, it was flawless. If I can find a good handload for the MV, I'd be happy, because otherwise the rifle is beautifully made, light, and compact.
 
The 24.9gr loads don't look too terrible. The Baer looks like it likes the hot loads though. Are those both 7 twist? Wylde chambers on both?
I've found 60gr Nosler Varmageddon and CFE223 work well in most of my semi's, maybe give that a try when you run out of SMK's. As a plus they will work very well in the MV away from the range on gophers or whatever other small critters you want to see explode :p
 
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Before we all get our panties in a knot, it would help to know what the twist rate on each of the 'contestants' is.
I had a Les Baer with one of the slower twists (1/12?) and it was crap with heavier pills, but grouped great with 52gr., as would be expected.
I suspect lighter bullets would be the order of the day, and would appreciate a follow up on A) actual twist rates and B) another range visit with appropriate weight bullets.
 
Twist rate of the Baer is 1:9 in .223Rem, the MV is 1:8 with the Wylde chamber. So both should have no problem with the 69gr SMK. In fact, the Baer really likes the Federal Gold Medal Match cartridge which uses the 69 SMK. It also shoots well with Hornady 52gr HP and Benchmark powder.

The MV doesn't seem to like either bullet, but that still might be me getting used to the trigger. Maybe.

Also, I'm a bit rusty, since this is my first trip to the range since last fall. I'm hoping more range time with the MV will improve the groups.
 
The ATRS army will be here soon. I have posted again and again. And I keep seeing more and more threads. The MH and MV are really sucking in the accuracy department. I owned a MH that I didn't keep very long due to accuracy. I was one of the original orders and noticed a ton for sale on the EE when I listed mine. So I'm sure there were others not impressed with there MH after the first month. Now that the MV have been shipping the last little while. Threads keep popping up like this one. I hate to hate on the Canadian company. But.....
 
oh, that doesn't look great, nice shooting with the Baer though.

I hope you try with another bullet and let us know the result.
 
I've found the SMKs are very tolerant of jumping from the mag and variation of loads of varget.
For both the 69s and the 77s you can basically just fill a .223 case and seat a bullet and be done.
The concern then really is consistency from round to round, concentricity of the finished round and consistant neck tension.
Those last two items are why I use match dies (for the concentricity) and crimping (for consistent neck tension, and you know, cause it's an auto loader).
If your POA is the same on the Baer, it looks like 24.5gr. of varget is your go to load - and that node has been consistent in more than a few ARs I have used.

With respect to the MV. Something is at play there - the hold, perhaps the design of the single pin upper/lower combo. I would really like to get my mitts on one for testing. I would very much doubt it has anything to do with that ammo or the barrel, so that leaves the rest of the gun and how it is all playing together on firing.
 
Grizz Axxemann said:
trololol ;)


Just don't let Jay see this. He's the biggest fanboy of the bunch, and he's a mod.

Around CGN, it's okay to rag on Marstar and NEA. Any other company... well... that disrupts the revenue stream. However, if a company is making a product that doesn't live up to the hype and/or is a complete turd out of the box, I say let the people know. So far both of the NR semi offerings from that machine shop in Calgary haven't had the most glowing reviews. A turd is a turd, and I really don't give a rat's ass how much money a sponsor is paying Enoch, if they make a #### product, and call their paying customers idiots on a public forum, then it's a #### company altogether.

Now I'm just gonna relax, light a smoke and wait and see which one of Rick's fanboys report this post, or one of Rick's fanboy mods just up and turfs it himself. Or maybe, just maybe, I get another infraction or worse, I DGAF.
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Oh no you didn't!!!! Lol

If this was a $1000 rifle. I would own both the MH and MV and would never complain about accuracy. But when I spend almost 5 grand and it shoots worse then my $150 marlin x22. I have a serious issue.
 
Chago said:
Oh no you didn't!!!! Lol

If this was a $1000 rifle. I would own both the MH and MV and would never complain about accuracy. But when I spend almost 5 grand and it shoots worse then my $150 marlin x22. I have a serious issue.
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I most certainly did. :D

If it was $1000 I'd still want better accuracy, and would be willing to put up with an ugly gun, but that's just me. I never was one for form over function. The MV and MH are certainly pretty guns, downright ###y in fact. But it seems that their accuracy rivals that of an early model XCR, or a low-end import AR-15. This looks like a case where paint job does not equal performance.
 
Grizz Axxemann said:
I most certainly did. :D

If it was $1000 I'd still want better accuracy, and would be willing to put up with an ugly gun, but that's just me. I never was one for form over function. The MV and MH are certainly pretty guns, downright ###y in fact. But it seems that their accuracy rivals that of an early model XCR, or a low-end import AR-15. This looks like a case where paint job does not equal performance.
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Careful. The lazers are positioning over us now lol
 
I would think that if there were widespread accuracy issues with the MH and MV we would see more threads on them. So far I've only seen the last one from a few days ago that got deleted. I think I've read more positive reviews on these rifles than negative.
 
Redblack said:
I would think that if there were widespread accuracy issues with the MH and MV we would see more threads on them. So far I've only seen the last one from a few days ago that got deleted. I think I've read more positive reviews on these rifles than negative.
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so you see only positive but you know of deleted threads?
 
Chago said:
Oh no you didn't!!!! Lol

If this was a $1000 rifle. I would own both the MH and MV and would never complain about accuracy. But when I spend almost 5 grand and it shoots worse then my $150 marlin x22. I have a serious issue.
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I am not going to touch on accurracy because many folks seem to discount any positive reports as false or freek event, but I will say you cant fairly pad your cost based argument by pitting a MV that is optioned out against your run of the mill basic ##### AR.

Comparing a base furniture AR to a custom furniture MV is heavily swaying the point you are trying to make and for what gain?

Its $1k vs $3.35k.

And even that is a stretch when uou consider the base components on the MV are usually considered aftermarket and certainly are not considered basic parts when installed on an AR (barrels, trigger, JP SCS buffer, ambi bolt release).

Since basic on the MV is the cheapest option we can achieve, we must at minimum spec out an AR to match the MV as a fair comparison.

Lilja barrels are $620usd.
Timney AR triggers are $240usd.
JP SCS is $225cad.
Ambi bolt release $50?
Exchange at 1.32, total is $1410.

So a comparable spec'd AR is $940 less then a MV. I know you will say the AR will shoot better, but you will also know I will say that AR is still restricted.

The difference is my negative claim is irrefutable and not up for debate, unlike the claim of accuracy issues which greatly depends on the shooters capabilities and ammo used/reloading capabilities.

There are a ton of variables to the accuracy argument that could be the life or death of decent accuracy in this platform.
 
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I really wish ATRS or if anyone would step up to the plate and post what both the MV and MH will do on average in the accuracy department....5 groups of 5 shots!

These rifles were originally hyped to be .5-.75 MOA capable.

Would this not settle all concerns and questions?
 
onetwentyish said:
There are a ton of variables to the accuracy argument that could be the life or death of decent accuracy in this platform.
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What are they?

The AR really only needs a good barrel and good ammo. Arguably a good trigger too.

The MV and MH seem to have all of those and shoots like above? Something isn't adding up
 
hawk-i said:
I really wish ATRS or if anyone would step up to the plate and post what both the MV and MH will do on average in the accuracy department....5 groups of 5 shots!

These rifles were originally hyped to be .5-.75 MOA capable.

Would this not settle all concerns and questions?
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and imagine how the haters would react with shrill screams of "liar liar" because the manufacturer shot and poster their own targets......

fan boi's and haters, black and white with no grey
 
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