Savage 111 bolt handle out of spec? *Video and pics showing the problem added*

rci2950

rci2950

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So i picked up a Savage 111 in unfired but non working condition that I intended to deactivate (7mm Magnum). But the rifle is brand new and i am having second thoughts about deactivating it. I never owned a belted magnum before and would like to get this one running. The issue i am having seems to be because of the bolt handle. It seems too thick. the bottom part of the bolt handle was catching on the receiver when closing. So i took the handle off and put the bolt in and it closes and opens properly. I took a file and removed a bit of material on the bottom of the bolt handle where it was catching. So then it would go in all the way but not turn down. So i discovered it was catching just forward of the handle on the edge of the receiver. So i filed a bit from there. bam. Bolt closes and opens nicely. so i pop the rear baffle back on and it wont close again. Almost like the baffle is too thick. But I am thinking the entire bolt handle is either the wrong one or it is defective. HAs anyone run into this before? I checked pictures online and it looks 100% like the correct bolt handle. Nothing i have looks like incorrect parts. Should i continue to shape this bolt handle until it works? AM i doing something unsafe? As far as i can tell the handle itself has nothing to do with the safe operation of the rifle.... Correct me if i am wrong.





Here are pics of the disassembled bolt.

33722580752_7520fae8b8_o.jpg


This is the length of the bolt body

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I measured inside the two points from here

33722581422_71d9de60ea_o.jpg


Here is the thickness of the bolt handle. I have removed a bit of material so this is thinner then original.

33035457604_a16b443294_o.jpg


Measured from this spot

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If anyone could confirm these measurements for me. It would help rule out having the wrong bolt.

Thanks a lot

Adam
 
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BigBraz15 said:
No issues with what you are doing. If you run into troubles you can order another bolt handle from many Internet sites. Or can try posting a WTB add in the EE.
Click to expand...

I am going to hunt around for a bolt handle to try. If it fits then I will buy one.
 
Have a close look at the mechanics of the machine before filing or fiddling further.
I have noticed on occasion that the bolt can bind when a round is not chambered. This is due to the process of pressing the bolt too far forward or having the bolt too far back when the bolt head lugs engage the receiver as you press down on the bolt handle. When a round is chambered however I have not found any issues with chambering or loading. So try this process first. Load rounds and eject without firing. if the rifle feeds and the bolt does not bind then you have no further issues.

If it still is binding then it could be a process where by the baffle could be out of spec or barrel install is not to spec (I suspect this may be the most likely culprit). I have never come across this issue when chambering rounds but in the world of mass production anything can happen.

My 2c.
Elky....
 
elkhuntr said:
Have a close look at the mechanics of the machine before filing or fiddling further.
I have noticed on occasion that the bolt can bind when a round is not chambered. This is due to the process of pressing the bolt too far forward or having the bolt too far back when the bolt head lugs engage the receiver as you press down on the bolt handle. When a round is chambered however I have not found any issues with chambering or loading. So try this process first. Load rounds and eject without firing. if the rifle feeds and the bolt does not bind then you have no further issues.

If it still is binding then it could be a process where by the baffle could be out of spec or barrel install is not to spec (I suspect this may be the most likely culprit). I have never come across this issue when chambering rounds but in the world of mass production anything can happen.

My 2c.
Elky....
Click to expand...

This makes sense but the bolt would not close with the handle on. No matter what i did. Not it wont close with the baffle on. Its not making it far enough forward to be a barrel issue. If the barrel was removed i would still be having this issue. Is there supposed to be a washer between the bolt handle and the bolt body? This would make sense because it seems as though everything is too far forward by about 2mm
 
No there is no washer between the handle and the bolt body. However, there is one between the bolt head assembly and the bolt body. Considering that factory bolt handles may all be the same issue for you I would rule out some of the obvious issues.

1, is the bolt head pin broken. If under pressure parts of this pin will fall and bind with the receiver.
2. Is the cocking pin too far out or binding some how.
3. When installed is the baffle free to move forward and aft. This piece free floats and does not affect the bolt spacing when under a locked position, unless some one has modified it and provided a spacer like function there by pushing the bolt rearward under pressure.
4. is the timing correct. Remove the firing pin assembly and check the cocking piece has engaged with the lugs. If the timing is too far off then the cocking pin may be too far aft and locking up some how. measure the distance between the spring and the retaining collars. it should be 2.600 for a long action. Pin protrusion at 0.035.
5: Check the forward receiver screw.....this can cause many a headache. If it enters to much into the receiver you will not be able to close the bolt.

if these are all in spec then we need to look into the issue further. pics please
 
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great video. Says a thousand words.

If you have any other savages then try a baffle off one of those. It looks to me that the angled portion of the baffle is restricting the ability of the bolt to come foreward. The baffle appears to be the issue as far as I can see. All the bolt internals stuff I mentioned will not correct your issue. If you were to remove material on the forward edge of the baffle it may resolve the problem.

But because these items are mass produced, it begs the question, how could this occur in the first place. The baffle or bolt assembly must have been replaced at some point. Does the bolt head have the same numbering as the receiver?

how does a chambered round feel when not using the baffle, is it tight to chamber, or loose?

This is definitely the weirdest issue I have come across working on savages for some time now.
 
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elkhuntr said:
how does a chambered round feel when not using the baffle, is it tight to chamber, or loose?
Click to expand...

I currently do not have a single round of ammunition for this rifle. It is the first of this caliber i have ever possessed. I will ask my LGS to load me a few dummy rounds with no primer or powder and then pick them up next week to try cycling it.
 
I measured the rear baffle from back to front of ramp on 3 baffles and ranged from 0.520-.524. And I had one of the largest baffle which measured 0.535
Bolt Body: 5.980
bold thickness: 0.441

I would look into modifying your rear baffle.

Hope that helps...
 
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should be 3 numbers engraved on the head of the bolt, they should be the same 3 numbers shown in the end of the serial number on the receiver.......is that the original correct bolt?
 
I just had a look at my two Savage rifles. If it is in deed the handle/baffle. With handle up and bolt forward yours looks like you have 1/6 to 1/8 gap between the handle and the baffle, on mine it looks like it might be maybe .010 to.020 I don't have feeler gauges to actually measure but yours has way to much gap. I would look for some one who has a similar rifle and have a look maybe if in same caliper try their bolt. One thing about it filing the handle/baffle can lead to extraction issues as the two act as a cam to aid in extraction.
better to try a known good bolt before proceeding
Not much help I know but best I can offer.
 
wce323078 said:
I just had a look at my two Savage rifles. If it is in deed the handle/baffle. With handle up and bolt forward yours looks like you have 1/6 to 1/8 gap between the handle and the baffle, on mine it looks like it might be maybe .010 to.020 I don't have feeler gauges to actually measure but yours has way to much gap. I would look for some one who has a similar rifle and have a look maybe if in same caliper try their bolt. One thing about it filing the handle/baffle can lead to extraction issues as the two act as a cam to aid in extraction.
better to try a known good bolt before proceeding
Not much help I know but best I can offer.
Click to expand...



This is how i am going to proceed from here. A member here is sending me a bolt handle and i am going to look for a bolt body. with the two parts i can just swap over my remaining bits and hopefully resolve the issue after having my smith inspect headspace
 
Someone shortened the bolt by 0.070" is my first guess. I can't see the handle end so cannot tell. They should be 6.00" long where you measured. 86 that handle and get a new bolt body.

I just so happen to have a brand spankin new one. Black. Says Tactical on the package wohoo

I might likely have a handle, might not. Don't have the ambition right now to find it though.

If you tell me the bolt serial number matches the rifle I would be satisfied your on the final path to glory.

Rob

EDIT - Adding 0.070" to the body length will likely result in poor primary extraction but at least it will cycle. I'm pretty sure the original owner simply removed too much from the bolt body when they didn't like the primary extraction they had. Again I am guessing but it is not my first rodeo. You will also have to reset the firing pin protrusion and ensure the sear pin does NOT hit home when released. Please google and research as you will end up edumacated, proud and not annoy people :)
 
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I would not modify the bolt handle any more. I would take a complete bolt from a properly functioning LA and insert into your action and see what happens. Assuming it works, swap over the baffle from the working bolt to yours.

If that resolves your issue, then you know where the "wrong" part(s) is(are).

Any chance the handle and baffle came from a SA or a different gen rifle?

I assume this was not a factory new rifle?

Jerry

PS please post a pic of the completely assembled bolt.
 
Mystic Precision said:
I would not modify the bolt handle any more. I would take a complete bolt from a properly functioning LA and insert into your action and see what happens. Assuming it works, swap over the baffle from the working bolt to yours.

If that resolves your issue, then you know where the "wrong" part(s) is(are).

Any chance the handle and baffle came from a SA or a different gen rifle?

I assume this was not a factory new rifle?

Jerry

PS please post a pic of the completely assembled bolt.
Click to expand...

I PM'd you
 
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PEI ROB said:
Someone shortened the bolt by 0.070" is my first guess. I can't see the handle end so cannot tell. They should be 6.00" long where you measured. 86 that handle and get a new bolt body.

I just so happen to have a brand spankin new one. Black. Says Tactical on the package wohoo

I might likely have a handle, might not. Don't have the ambition right now to find it though.

If you tell me the bolt serial number matches the rifle I would be satisfied your on the final path to glory.

Rob

EDIT - Adding 0.070" to the body length will likely result in poor primary extraction but at least it will cycle. I'm pretty sure the original owner simply removed too much from the bolt body when they didn't like the primary extraction they had. Again I am guessing but it is not my first rodeo. You will also have to reset the firing pin protrusion and ensure the sear pin does NOT hit home when released. Please google and research as you will end up edumacated, proud and not annoy people :)
Click to expand...

I Can not find any indication of a serial number on the bolt at all. Nothing on the head either. I have been googling this thing to death. I even called savage. The only thing I think has happened is that a store employee accidentally swapped the bolt. Or a customer bought the rifle and swapped the bolt with theirs and returned the rifle as malfunctioning to correct an issue they were having... This sort of thing happens at the junk yard local to me so I would assume people aren't above doing it to a gun shop. It has been a really good learning experience to me. I have learned a lot about the savage 110 series since picking this up the other day.
 
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