IMBEL IA2 Carbines (5.56mm/7.62mm) for FAL Fetishists

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Guys,

There was a thefirearmsblog post about new rifles from IMBEL which are interesting to me as a self-appointed FAL Fetishist. I would sell my entire collection to own a Para FAL...

Given that it seems the 5.56 IA2 is claimed to be developed independently from the FAL, while sharing FAL aesthetics, from which the 7.62 IA2 is a variant of the 5.56mm one, I wonder if it'd get snapped up as an FAL variant and thus prohibited out of hand....

armas-a2.jpg


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/04/13/imbels-new-7-62x51mm-ia2-carbine-rifle/

It seems as though they will be in production this year, and may be available for export towards the end of the year. What else comes out of Brazil? FAMAE is Chilean - maybe they're close enough that some of those existing importers could take a short ride to visit IMBEL on our behalf.

Thoughts?

Bradley
 
It is a rotatomg lock bolt in a bolt carrier, so theoretically a different firearm.
However, it will all depend how Imbel markets them. One wronmg word and the mounties cling to it like an ambulance chasing lawyer.

I think Imbel is the maker of FAMAE SAF in Brazil too.
In 9mm, .40 and a carine in .30 carbine that is pretty attractive too.
 
This would be cool too...

imbel_md97.jpg


"IMBEL MD-97 family of rifles was developed on the basis of earlier IMBELMD-2 rifles, with certain improvements in parts and overall size. The family consists of two basic models, the selectively-fired MD-97L rifle, which is intended for Brazilian Army's Special Forces, and semi-automatic only MD-97LC carbine, which is intended for police use.

IMBEL MD-97 rifles feature gas operated action with short-stroke piston and rotary bolt locking. The trigger unit and folding or fixed butt stock are same as on earlier 7,62mm Fz MD963 rifles (Brazilian-made copies of Belgian FN FAL rifle).Both rifle and police carbine variants are available with either fixed or folding butt stocks; the military MD-97L also can be fitted with domestically-made 40mm under barrel grenade launcher or bayonet. MD-97 rifles use M16-compatible magazines."
 
I'd like one but am not going to hold my breath. The Armscorps (?) .22 AR and AK's are treated the same as the real ones.
 
recce said:
I'd like one but am not going to hold my breath. The Armscorps (?) .22 AR and AK's are treated the same as the real ones.
Click to expand...

Because 22lr versions of those are named in the OIC. Variants of those 22lr versions are also prohibited.

These have a different action than the FAL. While they share a trigger group, the upper receiver would be the controlled part.

Much like the lusa rifles compared to the mp5.
 
enefgee said:
I believe that was the problem with the 97 - they said it was an FAL variant (they also said the Dragunov is an AK variant, so I guess variant really means "nasty bad gun")
Click to expand...

Ya I spoke too soon on that one. I corrected it then saw your update.

The Dragunov is listed in the oic as prohibited. Not as a variant but by name. Variants of the Dragunov are also prohibited because of it.

The "ak47" oic lists a whole bunch of guns by name that aren't AK's. So it doesn't have to function like an AK to be prohibited by that oic.

AK47, Dragunov, and FAL are prohibited by name. That md97 is prohibited as a variant of a named gun (FAL). Same result though.
 
lawn gnome said:
It is a rotatomg lock bolt in a bolt carrier, so theoretically a different firearm.
However, it will all depend how Imbel markets them. One wronmg word and the mounties cling to it like an ambulance chasing lawyer.

I think Imbel is the maker of FAMAE SAF in Brazil too.
In 9mm, .40 and a carine in .30 carbine that is pretty attractive too.
Click to expand...

As I have said often before, it very much seems the marketing makes the determination.


fenceline said:
Because 22lr versions of those are named in the OIC. Variants of those 22lr versions are also prohibited.

These have a different action than the FAL. While they share a trigger group, the upper receiver would be the controlled part.

Much like the lusa rifles compared to the mp5.
Click to expand...

recce said:
I'd like one but am not going to hold my breath. The Armscorps (?) .22 AR and AK's are treated the same as the real ones.
Click to expand...

enefgee said:
I believe that was the problem with the 97 - they said it was an FAL variant (they also said the Dragunov is an AK variant, so I guess variant really means "nasty bad gun")
Click to expand...

fenceline said:
Ya I spoke too soon on that one. I corrected it then saw your update.

The Dragunov is listed in the oic as prohibited. Not as a variant but by name. Variants of the Dragunov are also prohibited because of it.

The "ak47" oic lists a whole bunch of guns by name that aren't AK's. So it doesn't have to function like an AK to be prohibited by that oic.

AK47, Dragunov, and FAL are prohibited by name. That md97 is prohibited as a variant of a named gun (FAL). Same result though.
Click to expand...

Yep, if the maker calls it a .22 AK, the RCMP will too...
Lets hope this IA2 has NOT been described as "an improved FAL"...
 
tootall said:
As I have said often before, it very much seems the marketing makes the determination.

Yep, if the maker calls it a .22 AK, the RCMP will too...
Lets hope this IA2 has NOT been described as "an improved FAL"...
Click to expand...

Mitchell Arms AK22. It's on the OIC. Isn't an actual AK but was marketed as an AK clone. They listed it by name on the OIC and now we have AK clones in 22 as variants.

If it functions and looks like a Mitchell Arms AK22, we are out of luck. It has nothing to do with the AK47 look or action. Only that the two guns are listed together in the same chapter of the OIC.
 
fenceline said:
Mitchell Arms AK22. It's on the OIC. Isn't an actual AK but was marketed as an AK clone. They listed it by name on the OIC and now we have AK clones in 22 as variants.

If it functions and looks like a Mitchell Arms AK22, we are out of luck. It has nothing to do with the AK47 look or action. Only that the two guns are listed together in the same chapter of the OIC.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is my point.
 
I agree that we can get into a sticky situation depending on how it's marketed, because I'm confident that sharing a trigger group and parts of a lower wouldn't be sufficient for Variant status (see: Modern Hunter not being an AR15 variant and thus restricted).

It comes down to marketing, and exactly how the manufacturer themselves describes the gun. If they say, "BASED ON THE VENERABLE FAL DESIGN," or "Product improved, natural replacement for the FAL while retaining all FAL qualities," or even say the damn word FAL when describing the IA2, it's likely that based on that and a quick glance at the gun, it'd be described as a variant of the FAL and thus prohibited.

I'd love an IA2 in either 5.56 or 7.62, and I'm reasonably confident that nothing in this particular line of guns has been submitted in the past. Here's hoping that it's a different venture than the already-prohibited MD-97LC.
 
Imbel advertised the MD97 as a derivative of the FAL when they came out with it in the nineties.
They probably thought that linking it like that might boost sales.
Yes, that's right, a word or two in an advertisement.

Good enough for the RCMP to read that and claim variant without an effort at the time.
 
MD97 strip and assemble.

I once found a strip and assemble video of a 1A2 but can seem to find it now.
Those bayonets and camp knives are pretty decent too. I got one.

Taurus makes the SAF as the MT9 (sub machinegun)or CT9(semi auto carbine).
Same for MT40, CT40 and even in .30 carbine.
 
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