IMBEL IA2 Carbines (5.56mm/7.62mm) for FAL Fetishists

The "FAL" ish architecture is honestly outdated and had been ditched by FN in the 70's. There is no reason a rifle designed in the 21 st century uses a "receiver" cover and the lower to hold the barrel trunnion. This thing will a pain in the rear to maintain zero for the optic attached to the receiver cover, the very same problem that plaques all the AK and VZ 58 rifles. The Russian tried to band aide out of the AK with AK12 but it is still not a go. On the other hand, brazil doesn't really have money for optics anyways.

I guess the 7.62 version may be appealing to those who want a "FAL" like rifle, but the 5.56 is seriously a waste of time. Putting plastic and a new folding stock on a design that had died 40 years ago will not make this a good system. It just shows that Imbel is only capable of re-inventing the wheel.
 
fenceline said:
Mitchell Arms AK22. It's on the OIC. Isn't an actual AK but was marketed as an AK clone. They listed it by name on the OIC and now we have AK clones in 22 as variants.

If it functions and looks like a Mitchell Arms AK22, we are out of luck. It has nothing to do with the AK47 look or action. Only that the two guns are listed together in the same chapter of the OIC.
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Oh, that's BS and we all know it. For an example, see the Mossberg Blaze .22LR rifle. In its original form, it's non-restricted. Put plastic furniture on it, but don't change the way it functions, and BOOM, the Firearms Lab suddenly decides that it's prohibited. Why? Nobody knows, unless that fact that the furniture somewhat resembles an AK-pattern rifle is the determining factor.
 
Shredder, I think Fenceline is agreeing with you, wherein the function of the rifle and the actual characteristics of the gun have nothing to do with it, it's advertising. If I made a pump action shotgun that I said was "BASED ON THE VENERABLE AK47," it'd likely be prohibited as a variant.

The Blaze-47 isn't just marketed as another .22 that happens to look like an AK47, it's specifically marketed by Mossberg as offering "THE LOOK AND FEEL OF AN AK47," which is apparently enough to make it a variant thereof. http://www.mossberg.com/product/blaze-47-wood-25-round-37255/

How we market #### plays a very large role in how it's classified. If you tell the firearms lab that it's based on an FAL or another prohibited firearm, we're doing their work for them, as they'll take us at our word.

And Greentips, I'm not overly concerned with it's strengths and weaknesses compared to other firearms - the IA2 performs a function for the Brazilian forces of offering a similar manual of arms and perhaps some parts interchangeability. For me it offers an opportunity for something that looks/feels like a firearm that I am physically incapable of ever owning, minus dewatts.

If I want a good system, I'll turn to any of my existing ARs, or any of the newer products on the market in either 5.56 or 7.62.

Bradley
 
PaveHammer said:
Shredder, I think Fenceline is agreeing with you, wherein the function of the rifle and the actual characteristics of the gun have nothing to do with it, it's advertising. If I made a pump action shotgun that I said was "BASED ON THE VENERABLE AK47," it'd likely be prohibited as a variant.

The Blaze-47 isn't just marketed as another .22 that happens to look like an AK47, it's specifically marketed by Mossberg as offering "THE LOOK AND FEEL OF AN AK47," which is apparently enough to make it a variant thereof. http://www.mossberg.com/product/blaze-47-wood-25-round-37255/
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Actually not really. I'm telling him specifically why, not just regurgitating the "oh it looks like an AK" logic which is a very general and not completely accurate way of understanding variant issues...

The action, combined with the looks, gives it over to being a variant of the Mitchell Arms AK22.

Not just any old AK47. But specifically the Mitchell Arms AK22. Because the Mitchell Arms AK22 is named specifically on that OIC as being prohibited along with any variant of it.

Which is why I say looking like an AK47 doesn't much matter when the AK22 is on the list. That is the specific source of the issue on prohibition for 22 AKs.
 
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lawn gnome said:
Imbel advertised the MD97 as a derivative of the FAL when they came out with it in the nineties.
They probably thought that linking it like that might boost sales.
Yes, that's right, a word or two in an advertisement.

Good enough for the RCMP to read that and claim variant without an effort at the time.
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That was back in the day when the lab wasn't too concerned about actually seeing a gun before classifying it. I'm willing to bet one of these has never been to the lab.

Might be one of those guns that reverses an FRT opinion if it ever showed up there.

Not that anyone would want to risk the money on the bet by buying and importing one for such a venture.
 
fenceline said:
Actually not really. I'm telling him specifically why, not just regurgitating the "oh it looks like an AK" logic which is a very general and not completely accurate way of understanding variant issues...

The action, combined with the looks, gives it over to being a variant of the Mitchell Arms AK22.

Not just any old AK47. But specifically the Mitchell Arms AK22. Because the Mitchell Arms AK22 is named specifically on that OIC as being prohibited along with any variant of it.

Which is why I say looking like an AK47 doesn't much matter when the AK22 is on the list. That is the specific source of the issue on prohibition for 22 AKs.
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Well, if you're drawing the Mitchell Arms AK22 as the variant from which the Blaze 47 is getting it's prohibition, I'd have to see a specific entry in the FRT or some other reason as to why that would be. As far as I am aware, the Blaze 47 was prohibited as a variant of the AK47, not the MA AK22.

Furthermore, the AK22 is prohibited by OIC specifically because it looks like an AK47, not because it is a functional variant thereof. This seems like a fairly circular argument. Even if the Blaze 47 was a variant of the AK22, that is only an aesthetic variant of the AK47.

Bradley
 
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