How to avoid ring marks? Please advice.
- Thread starter mockba77
- Start date
if a one piece base works for you (access to loading port/proper ejection) and the weight is satisfactory to you...that is certainly a very good option. The prudent technique with mounting a one piece base is to screw down ONLY the front of the base first...then check for clearance at the rear of the base....then reverse the process. If you find any clearance...front or back...shim accordingly so that when the rings are added they are going on to a relatively 'true' base.
(I remember the little black strip of paper that Burris used to package with the rings now...but dont recall if I ever used it?)
mastermind
CGN Regular
- Location
- SW Ontario
Since I bought a Wheeler lapping kit, i've disassembled all previously mounted scopes that weren't using Burris Signature rings with inserts, checked alignment and lapped them. They ALL required lapping and I only use Burris and Leupold rings.
I do try and use the Burris inserts when it fits the application, otherwise lapping has become a necessity. I've noticed by using a proper level and continuously checking alignment while lapping, I am much closer to zero after mounting without having to crank the dials. It's a night and day difference most of the time.
There's more benefit to lapping rings then just preventing scratches!
I do try and use the Burris inserts when it fits the application, otherwise lapping has become a necessity. I've noticed by using a proper level and continuously checking alignment while lapping, I am much closer to zero after mounting without having to crank the dials. It's a night and day difference most of the time.
There's more benefit to lapping rings then just preventing scratches!
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Use double sided tape, rubber cement or toilet paper for all I care. You're being stupid. Lapping the rings accomplishes what you need done. Who sell their 34mm rings without the scope? Or their 34mm scope without the rings? There is such a thing as doing the job right the first time. You, sir, are not doing that.
It's either my scope finish, or rings, or combination of two.
Torqued to 23 in/lbs, not a mark on the scope when i removed it to relevel.
I even turned the scope a bit once it was at 8-9 in/lbs.
Spuhr 34mm unimout and vortex razor gen ll
No lapping, no toilet paper, no chewing gum, nothing!
I guess if you are going to spend for NF, might as well get a spuhr mount and call it a day?
Torqued to 23 in/lbs, not a mark on the scope when i removed it to relevel.
I even turned the scope a bit once it was at 8-9 in/lbs.
Spuhr 34mm unimout and vortex razor gen ll
No lapping, no toilet paper, no chewing gum, nothing!
I guess if you are going to spend for NF, might as well get a spuhr mount and call it a day?
not on the same level but Alaska arms LLC is recommending to add paper friction on their rings:
Q: Do I need to use the friction paper that came with my scope rings?
A: Yes. It protects the scope tube and prevents your scope from slipping in the rings under heavy recoil.
h t t p s ://alaskaarmsllc.com/pages/faq
h t t p s ://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1218/9064/files/RugerRingInstallationInstructions.pdf?8395614621417450307
and i will ask Phil Shoemaker if he had any problems with it under AK peninsula weather ... Yukon is dryer but just wondering now ...
Q: Do I need to use the friction paper that came with my scope rings?
A: Yes. It protects the scope tube and prevents your scope from slipping in the rings under heavy recoil.
h t t p s ://alaskaarmsllc.com/pages/faq
h t t p s ://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1218/9064/files/RugerRingInstallationInstructions.pdf?8395614621417450307
and i will ask Phil Shoemaker if he had any problems with it under AK peninsula weather ... Yukon is dryer but just wondering now ...
My thoughts exactly. Firearms are tools. Tools shouldn't be needlessly abused, but I'm not worried about my hammer getting marked up when it hits a nail.
would be harder for moisture to permeate the paper than the open stock wood in a lot of the rifle inlets or the face of a butt stock of a Remington pump ...my favorite wet weather rifle.
Thats probably true SND ... but if you accept that premise ... then it follows that the opposite might occur - in which case the worse thing you could do is lap the rings and exascerbate the problem.
I believe the only possible value to be gained from lapping rings is to remove unfinished sharp edges -- which really shouldnt be there to begin with .... and this is assuming the ring bottoms can be securely held to permit lapping them without distorting them -- I have no idea how the upper ring halves can be lapped other than freehand ... and I wouldnt trust too many people to do this.
As for how to judge who is or who isnt the 'expert' -- well I am pretty confident that the shop in Canada that mounted the greatest number of rifle scopes over the years was LeBarons in Markham. AND with the exception of work done by Bing probably the majority were mounted in a less than optimal fashion for various reasons -- haste being the primary cause.
freezer filler
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Windsor, Ontario
Get a good torque driver.
I dont recall the use of toilet paper being suggested as an option ... or even double side tape unless I missed something (edit to add - it was mentioned and I missed it). And I do not think the OP is being stupid. He is simply asking questions about what options are available and that might suit his aims and situation.
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Your hammer cost 350$ (let's pretend you got a Stileto) and a scope costs 4000$, not the same comparison.
I can understand OP of wanting to protect a few thousand dollars investment.
But i do agree, i'd just go with best rings, and if it marks scope a bit so be it.
Doesn't going unimout factor out things like crooked rail, crooked receiver screw holes etc...?
And my Toyota 4Runner for off roading cost me $12000. It's going to get scratched by tree branches and fenders are going to get damaged.
Nothing wrong with wanting things to stay pristine forever, but I've learned to just say "Oh well" and move on or it's going to eat you up.
I recently dropped $3700 on a USO LR-17. First time I took it out to the range, wind picked up while I was downrage changing targets, scooped up an empty range bag on the stand next to me, caught the rifle and it went for a tumble on concrete. #### happens.
Lap the rings for 75% contact if necessary and torque to spec. I personally wouldn't do much more.
The truck in my avatar was a 17K off roading rig, i know all about it.
My 2017 GMC Sierra in my driveway will never get close to a trail.
There are some stuff you spend while knowing you will devaluate it, and some other you wish to protect investment.
On the part of taking great care of scope i agree with OP 100%, if i resell i wish to retain value.
But i do agree, lap the rings or get unimount, if it did happen to scratch tube then so be it.
My 2017 GMC Sierra in my driveway will never get close to a trail.
There are some stuff you spend while knowing you will devaluate it, and some other you wish to protect investment.
On the part of taking great care of scope i agree with OP 100%, if i resell i wish to retain value.
But i do agree, lap the rings or get unimount, if it did happen to scratch tube then so be it.
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
"You don't need Spuhr... it's a waste of money." - CGN.
I'm wondering who gave you the right to call others "stupid"? Read my comments and see why I don't want to lap the rings. This is my choice and I don't care what do you think. Period.
Who sell their 34mm rings without the scope? Or their 34mm scope without the rings? I do and many others. When we change a rifle or a stock, when we upgrade the optics, for example. There may be hundreds of reasons. You probably didn't know that you can sell things separately, didn't you?
Thank you, AP. I'm asking questions here because I'd like to get an objective, educated answer as well as some different experience rather than "lap the damn rings". Typical armchair-commando replies happen and I guess we have to live with this. If I wanted to simply toss my scope around, I wouldn't have invested as much as I have into it (~$4K). I don't mind normal wear and tear, but I do try to avoid unneeded wear as well. I though something has changed since the time when I used electrical tape to avoid ring marks
I do have a Vortex torque driver and always torque mounts and rings to recommended specs.
I thank all who shared their experience and knowledge with the community. I hope this thread will help others to make their choice as well!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Cosmetic damage is one thing, causing the scope to not function properly is a completely different animal. When you compress a scope tube enough to ding it, do you think the size change is only limited to under the rings????
When you ding up the tube, is it only compressing the tube or is there some bending going on too???? FYI, scopes are not designed to work went bent....
This is one of the main reasons for scopes being sent back for warranty... turrents don't move properly when mounted to the rifle or a blurry image. Tech gets it into their test fixture and the scope works just fine. I have caused this problem myself and why I switched to the Burris rings with inserts as soon as they became available.
A unimount is only as true as the action it is torque onto. Unless, your mount has some form of suspension, how does it stay straight if the action is bent?
Needing to Lap rings is a sure sign of a problem... Lapping rings is NOT a solution (nor is a filler). most better made rings are honed to a specific size to fit the scope. Some are even line honed in matched pairs so they are dead straight. They will have index and id marks so the caps go on the correct ring in the same direction.
how the heck can any "sizing" you do make these rings better??? It will most certainly make them bigger.
Now if the industry started making UNDERSIZED rings that require lapping to fit... then all good but at this time, they do not so I do not see the point.
Set up the base to be straight and stress free... ie properly bed to the action if the action if wonky. Now ANY quality ring will mount on straight and NOT need lapping. I would still use the Burris rings because it sure makes shimming for LR shooting so much easier... more goodness for little investment.
YMMV.
Jerry
When you ding up the tube, is it only compressing the tube or is there some bending going on too???? FYI, scopes are not designed to work went bent....
This is one of the main reasons for scopes being sent back for warranty... turrents don't move properly when mounted to the rifle or a blurry image. Tech gets it into their test fixture and the scope works just fine. I have caused this problem myself and why I switched to the Burris rings with inserts as soon as they became available.
A unimount is only as true as the action it is torque onto. Unless, your mount has some form of suspension, how does it stay straight if the action is bent?
Needing to Lap rings is a sure sign of a problem... Lapping rings is NOT a solution (nor is a filler). most better made rings are honed to a specific size to fit the scope. Some are even line honed in matched pairs so they are dead straight. They will have index and id marks so the caps go on the correct ring in the same direction.
how the heck can any "sizing" you do make these rings better??? It will most certainly make them bigger.
Now if the industry started making UNDERSIZED rings that require lapping to fit... then all good but at this time, they do not so I do not see the point.
Set up the base to be straight and stress free... ie properly bed to the action if the action if wonky. Now ANY quality ring will mount on straight and NOT need lapping. I would still use the Burris rings because it sure makes shimming for LR shooting so much easier... more goodness for little investment.
YMMV.
Jerry
