Who has a x95......Accuracy, what is the deal

Jarvy said:
To be fair, IDF models don't have a rifle length barrel. They have a 13" barrel. The X95 is, in practical terms, a submachinegun that doubles as a carbine when needed and that configuration should tell you all you need to know. 3-ish MOA, while not fantastic, is acceptable for a service rifle. Though I wouldn't be surprised if those 13" models are more accurate than what we got *because* of the short barrels, and the relative contact points.

I'm not sure why everyone's harping about on Tavor (not the X95) accuracy though, mine shoots great. I routinely get 2.5 MOA with a 2MOA red dot and XM193 ball. The trick is to NOT shoot from a bench, because thats the most awkward thing you can do with a Tavor.
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I like how TVPP put it in one of his TFB articles. The CTAR is a rifle length barrel in a carbine length platform, and the MTAR is a carbine length barrel in a PDW size platform.
 
Jarvy said:
The trick is to NOT shoot from a bench, because thats the most awkward thing you can do with a Tavor.
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People tend to sit on their butts at the range. it's quite amusing...lol. Its like the dude who buy jacked up truck to go grocery shopping... ahhahahahah
 
onetwentyish said:
I suppose that would be highly dependent on what your expectations are going in. You do realize this is a rifle that was designed for largely CQB purposes with the goal in mind of having a dead nuts reliable firearm that when shouldered has a shorter/smaller foot print than a soldier shooting a pistol arms extended. When you take into consideration those as the main concerns, the accuracy issue becomes irrelevant.

Internally the x9t and Tar-21 are identical. They share reciever inserts, barrels, bolt carrier groups, trigger components, etc. This is literally a re-skin of an existing proven platform.
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This..........Nuf Said
 
So can anyone name a non restricted black rifle available that can shoot 1 moa or better consistently?

I don't know why everyone seems to expect such precision out of a civilian version of a battle rifle. The only rifles that seem to be able to provide the accuracy you all ask for are higher end AR's and the ACR with a quality barrel yet everyone seems to expect every rifle over $1500 to be able to shoot sub moa. If you want to shoot sub moa buy a bolt action and some quality ammo then sit at a bench or prone all afternoon till you're bored. If you want fun to shoot from various field positions banging steel and participating in action shooting you buy a black rifle.

How many of you harping about the poor accuracy have actually every shot consistent sub moa groups with a semi auto? Fluking off a single group once in a while is not consistent and doesn't make you or the rifle you're using a consistent 1 moa shooter.
It isn't easy no matter what rifle you have since a semi auto magnifies every mistake you make in your shooting fundamentals then add to that we are now talking about a bullpup which makes things even more difficult since they are hard to support properly and the short overall length multiplies every mistake the shooter makes. If shooting tiny groups all day simply required you to spend $3000 on a rifle and then go buy some premium ammo the my gun shoots sub moa all day long challenges would be full of people with pictures of targets with five targets with five round sub moa groups but instead there are very few successful attempts.
I would bet that most of you complaining about the accuracy of this rifle couldn't shoot 10 rounds into a sub moa group even with a $5000 bolt action with tuned handloads.
Have realistic expectations and you'll be a lot happier with your toys.
 
cr5 said:
So can anyone name a non restricted black rifle available that can shoot 1 moa or better consistently?

I don't know why everyone seems to expect such precision out of a civilian version of a battle rifle. The only rifles that seem to be able to provide the accuracy you all ask for are higher end AR's and the ACR with a quality barrel yet everyone seems to expect every rifle over $1500 to be able to shoot sub moa. If you want to shoot sub moa buy a bolt action and some quality ammo then sit at a bench or prone all afternoon till you're bored. If you want fun to shoot from various field positions banging steel and participating in action shooting you buy a black rifle.

How many of you harping about the poor accuracy have actually every shot consistent sub moa groups with a semi auto? Fluking off a single group once in a while is not consistent and doesn't make you or the rifle you're using a consistent 1 moa shooter.
It isn't easy no matter what rifle you have since a semi auto magnifies every mistake you make in your shooting fundamentals then add to that we are now talking about a bullpup which makes things even more difficult since they are hard to support properly and the short overall length multiplies every mistake the shooter makes. If shooting tiny groups all day simply required you to spend $3000 on a rifle and then go buy some premium ammo the my gun shoots sub moa all day long challenges would be full of people with pictures of targets with five targets with five round sub moa groups but instead there are very few successful attempts.
I would bet that most of you complaining about the accuracy of this rifle couldn't shoot 10 rounds into a sub moa group even with a $5000 bolt action with tuned handloads.
Have realistic expectations and you'll be a lot happier with your toys.
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You forget this is CGN where everyone has a 12" ####, did 20 tours of duty in da 'Nam, and shoots sub-MOA free hand with bubba'd SKS that they only paid 50 bucks for.
 
Having a rifle (yes, even a service rifle) that will perform (accuracy, dependability, durability) with the technology available currently should be expected as the norm, not the exception.
Most manufacturers are using hammer forged barrels, and they offer exceptional durability and accuracy compared to their predecessors. The corrosion resistant coatings and treatments that are surpassing chrome lining, and even the Chrome lining that is being installed on barrels are done in such fashion as to be able to maintain that accuracy.
Ammunition is better than it has ever been with manufacturers producing bulk FMJ and service ammunition capable of moa or better.

I rarely shoot from the bench and quite frankly, detest it. To me it is a necessary evil of confirming zero, testing handloads, etc.
Most of my shooting is positional.

Taking that into account, in my mind this makes the inherent accuracy of the service rifle even more important.
Think about it - if you are huffing and puffing or taking up an awkward improvised shooting position which would you rather add to your 10moa hold - the 1-2 moa of your rifle/ammo combination with rifle 'A' or the 6-8 moa of the Tavor?

How many guys would take a Tavor to NSCC? You'd have your a$$ handed to you - zero benches in sight of service rifle matches.
 
beltfed said:
6-8 moa of the Tavor?
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If you're getting 6-8 MOA with a Tavor, it's you. And I get people who think that. When I try to bench my Tavor, its so awkward my groups turn out pretty terrible too. (NEVER as bad as 6-8, I think my worst groups are 4MOA-ish) But when I prone out, maybe sandbag it if I really want to squeeze out a tight group, it does *Very* well.

And honestly, I would take a Tavor to a service rifle match. Under perfect conditions, prone supported, or monopoding on a magazine, the AR will shoot better, no question. But I've found the Tavor shines in offhand. In standing or kneeling, huffing and puffing, I'd take the Tavor. It makes hits almost effortlessly.
 
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BillD said:
You forget this is CGN where everyone has a 12" ####, did 20 tours of duty in da 'Nam, and shoots sub-MOA free hand with bubba'd SKS that they only paid 50 bucks for.
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lol... :) The people I run into that complain the most never trained a day in their lives... :) So when they start talking about how their fancy rifles shoots perfect cloverleafs in a led sled I tend to roll my eyes... hahahahah
 
Jarvy said:
If you're getting 6-8 MOA with a Tavor, it's you. And I get people who think that. When I try to bench my Tavor, its so awkward my groups turn out pretty terrible too. (NEVER as bad as 6-8, I think my worst groups are 4MOA-ish) But when I prone out, maybe sandbag it if I really want to squeeze out a tight group, it does *Very* well.

And honestly, I would take a Tavor to a service rifle match. Under perfect conditions, prone supported, or monopoding on a magazine, the AR will shoot better, no question. But I've found the Tavor shines in offhand. In standing or kneeling, huffing and puffing, I'd take the Tavor. It makes hits almost effortlessly.
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I don't think so. I've ran out an early gen 1.5 from 0-500m (and near as I can see I don't see the X95 improving on it) and the only thing I would agree on is that they shine with positional shooting. Past 200m they are rubbish, and at 200m the mpi is already starting to fall apart.
I ran it head to head against the FS2000 I had for a time and the FS2000 kicked it's a$$ handily.
For dynamic use like cqb or 3-gun at 150 - 0m it's ok, but then you can run a $600-1000 AR carbine and be further ahead.
I think of the two carbines the FS was better, but still suffered from most of the same negatives of being a bullpup.

The only thing going for it is the fact it is non-restricted currently, and it is a handy compact package.
 
zxcvbn said:
Perhaps the FNH FNAR? That being said I agree with the gist of your post.
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FNAR is a Browning BAR in fancy clothing, hardly a black rifle, plus I've spent a little time with one and while the owner was able to get close to 1 moa it was not consistently shooting like that with factory or handloads. Only Carmel has shown sub moa groups and he seems to be able to shoot sub moa with anything he touches which makes me a little sceptical of his results.


BillD said:
You forget this is CGN where everyone has a 12" ####, did 20 tours of duty in da 'Nam, and shoots sub-MOA free hand with bubba'd SKS that they only paid 50 bucks for.
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Oh ya, forgot about that, my bad :rolleyes:
 
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Tried 55 gr hand loads 55 gr factory 62 gr pmc xtac and hornaby 62 gr.... Not even going to waste ammo trying at a hundred, out of 80 rounds had two failure to feed( bullets pushed in) two failures to extract. Cycled three mags through to see what was going on, all bullets were scraped and gouged with noticeable copper shavings by feed ramps and barrel extension were bolt locks in.
 
Sasko31 said:
Tried 55 gr hand loads 55 gr factory 62 gr pmc xtac and hornaby 62 gr.... Not even going to waste ammo trying at a hundred, out of 80 rounds had two failure to feed( bullets pushed in) two failures to extract. Cycled three mags through to see what was going on, all bullets were scraped and gouged with noticeable copper shavings by feed ramps and barrel extension were bolt locks in.
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You sure thats not because of your hand loads? This is a Tavor we are talking about and they do have a stellar reputation for being a top notch combat rifle. Hell in the 1800 ish rounds I have through mine, I honestly dont ever remember a failure of any sorts.
 
Have a 8 by 12 plate at 174 meters with XCR l get 9 out of 10 and x95 get 2 out of 10......not suitable as a varmint rifle.
XCR l had a vortex strike fire red dot x95 meprolight RDS and yes the sight is tight.
 
84wh1 said:
You sure thats not because of your hand loads? This is a Tavor we are talking about and they do have a stellar reputation for being a top notch combat rifle. Hell in the 1800 ish rounds I have through mine, I honestly dont ever remember a failure of any sorts.
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I hear you about hand loads that's why I jumped in bat mobile and ran to city for some factory pmc and hornaby.
Just to make sure it's not me have an extremely good shooter coming over this morning who owns a tavor just to get an experienced bull pup users opinion.
 
This rifle handles so well, I am hoping to make it my go to rifle, I am wondering is it just me not used to bull pup???? But from the prone position this rifle feels right if you know what I mean so kind of confused about 25 yard group size.
 
Sasko31 said:
Have a 8 by 12 plate at 174 meters with XCR l get 9 out of 10 and x95 get 2 out of 10......not suitable as a varmint rifle.
XCR l had a vortex strike fire red dot x95 meprolight RDS and yes the sight is tight.
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Yeah if these are your results, I would for sure have someone else shoot your tavor to rule out the shooter. Plus have him bring some new ammo. My tavor has no problem hitting a 10x12 plate at 250 (ish) yards using AE 55 gr
 
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