Anschutz 64 "Tactical Trainer" chamber vs. high velocity ammo

[.22LRGUY]

Hey guys~not to repeat the stuff covered-off in this thread;

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...schutz-64-Tactical-Trainer?highlight=tactical

...but I have a question re: the Anschutz 64, it's chamber, and the likelihood that this "tactical trainer" would shoot HV ammo decently. For years, I've considered adding a nice Anschutz to the collection but for even longer than that, I used to marvel at the rifles used in biathlon events. Got very hung-up on the look of them, the mag carriers, adjustable stocks, etc. Flash ahead to this rifle and how much I enjoy shooting gophers.. Pretty sure gopher shooting isn't what Anschutz had in mind, but hey...the size of the rifle, accuracy potential, extra mags on deck~why not? Could it be the do-all Anschutz I've been after? In a gopher-popping role, the rifle would have to be able to shoot faster ammo well~not just the top-tier target ammo. So the questions are;

Do these have match chambers? If so, would HV ammo harm them in any way? Is there any reason a rifle like this would/would not have accuracy potential using HV ammo...and why? My CZ452 is a fine gopher-getter and this tactical trainer would only be used for that about 1 week a year~unless I end-up moving west. So, it would get a mixed diet to say the least.

Hoping someone with more Anschutz know-how might chime in. If you have a 64 and some HV ammo experience with it (good or bad) I especially want some input from you.

Thanks!

 

[HondaVTEC]

Anschutz does indeed use a tight , match chamber on their rifles . It is much tighter than what CZ uses . However , I see no reason why they would not shoot HV ammo that is the same overall length ( not Stingers ) as subsonic ammo . HV ammo typically is not as accurate as match grade subsonic ammo , but , it still will shoot .

 

[RabidM4U5]

Do these have match chambers? If so, would HV ammo harm them in any way? Is there any reason a rifle like this would/would not have accuracy potential using HV ammo...and why?

1) Yes, Anschütz cuts a tight, match chamber.
2) No, provided the HV round is the same dimensions as Standard rounds. It is the Stinger type ammo that is the issue in a match chamber.
3) Any well made barrel has accuracy potential with ammo that runs consistent muzzle velocities. HV ammo is typically much less consistent than match grade SV ammo, it is the lack of consistency that reduces accuracy, not the muzzle velocity.

Though not an Anschütz, here are some results from a Lilja barreled CZ shooting SK High Velocity HP. Bear in mind, this barrel has not been satisfactory to me (i.e. could not complete the 1/2" challenge, no matter what ammo I tried in it) I would expect similar and possibly better results in a good Anschütz

 

[hoytcanon]

All my 64's shoot Mini-Mags very well.

 

[grauhanen]

When all else fails, ask Brad at Nordic Marksman about using HV ammo. There are too many folks here saying one thing or another and basing their responses on the questionable philosophy of "it worked for me and didn't break the rifle".

For the use of Velocitors and Stingers in Anschutz rifles, read what Steve Boelter, who knows a little about them, has written.
See h t t p://www.rrdvegas.com/velocitor.html
and h t t p://www.rrdvegas.com/stinger.html

For those who may be asking "who the ef is Boelter?" He is the President of Anschutz North America, and has been the resident expert on RFC's Anschutz forum.

 

[Gillis2]

When all else fails, ask Brad at Nordic Marksman about using HV ammo. There are too many folks here saying one thing or another and basing their responses on the questionable philosophy of "it worked for me and didn't break the rifle".

For the use of Velocitors and Stingers in Anschutz rifles, read what Steve Boelter, who knows a little about them, has written.
See h t t p://www.rrdvegas.com/velocitor.html
and h t t p://www.rrdvegas.com/stinger.html

For those who may be asking "who the ef is Boelter?" He is the President of Anschutz North America, and has been the resident expert on RFC's Anschutz forum.

Once again, Glenn nailed it !

Gilbert

 

[grauhanen]

Any well made barrel has accuracy potential with ammo that runs consistent muzzle velocities. HV ammo is typically much less consistent than match grade SV ammo, it is the lack of consistency that reduces accuracy, not the muzzle velocity.

This is not so. It is the velocity and the fact that it diminishes below the speed of sound on the way to the target that causes HV ammo to be less accurate than SV ammo. When a projectile enters the transonic zone, that is entering or leaving the speed of sound, it experiences turbulence. It's unavoidable. SV ammo never exceeds the speed of sound and when it slows on the way to the target it avoids transonic turbulence, the accuracy robber of HV ammo. One of the reasons .17HMR ammo can be accurate is that it always remains above the speed of sound, just as center fire ammo does. It should be noted that .17HMR ammo is not always accurate because it is not available in match quality and is therefore more likely to have inconsistent velocities, among other potential shortcomings.

 

[Canadiankeeper]

Hey hey hey now, slow up... Nordic only has two in stock and my name is one one of them. I didnt wana slap it on the CC but if one goes mia I may have to scoop the other up.

 

[RabidM4U5]

Glenn, I suppose the answer is a combination of our two statements, as either on it's own does not address all scenarios. Lack of consistency in North American made HV ammo is a huge contributor to inaccuracy. I do not dispute the turbulence effect this ammo also experiences on route to target, but wonder, how much effect does it really have? More than what is observed from the large extreme spread in velocity inherent with production at this grade? I do not know this answer, nor do I suspect anyone else does. Are you, or anyone else, aware of testing performed by ammunition manufacturers with high velocity .22 LR loaded to match grade consistency specifications? What were the results of their testing, and the subsequent effect on accuracy from crossing the transonic zone with ammunition that is consistent? If it has been done, I would be most interested in the results.

What distance is one shooting? At 50 yards, HV ammo should still be just above the turbulence zone, and good accuracy is indeed possible. It should be noted, this is easier achieved with European made HV ammo such as Eley, RWS and SK. Of course, some have had good luck with North American HV ammo, but was the next box just as good, the next brick, the next lot?

At 100 yards, even with subsonic ammunition a variation of just 40 fps can cause vertical in excess of 1 inch. I've chronographed SK and RWS HV rounds to have extreme spread values around 80 fps, and Thunderbolt around 120 fps ES. I have not tested CCI, American Eagle or other such NA brands one would typically take to the gopher patch, but I would not expect their consistency to be superior to RWS or SK, and thus at long range this ammunition is already prescribed to perform in excess of 1 MOA, the turbulence is just icing on the cake.

 

[grauhanen]

Rabid sums it up nicely.

 

[.22LRGUY]

I did speak to Nordic...and I did find out they have (or maybe had?) 2 in stock. Still searching under couch cushions for the $ so I'll likely miss these 2. Worth the wait I'm thinking.

Now to avoid all the other firearms temptations. Marlin guide gun in 45/70 being one...

 

[Canadiankeeper]

I did speak to Nordic...and I did find out they have (or maybe had?) 2 in stock. Still searching under couch cushions for the $ so I'll likely miss these 2. Worth the wait I'm thinking.

Now to avoid all the other firearms temptations. Marlin guide gun in 45/70 being one...

yah, I want to get a new fish tank up and running... The missus is in vegas, duno if I wana suprise her with another fish tank or another rifle... Not sure what one will get me in less trouble lmfao

 

[.22LRGUY]

yah, I want to get a new fish tank up and running... The missus is in vegas, duno if I wana suprise her with another fish tank or another rifle... Not sure what one will get me in less trouble lmfao

I'm guessing she'd be more impressed with the fish tank. I'm convinced my wife doesn't really want to know what my hobbies cost. The result is marital harmony.

 

[Canadiankeeper]

I'm guessing she'd be more impressed with the fish tank. I'm convinced my wife doesn't really want to know what my hobbies cost. The result is marital harmony.

yah, she liked the salt water tank at the old place. I know she doesn't give a F about my guns and DOES know how much they cost...

 

[RabidM4U5]

When she asks "HOW MUCH did that gun cost!?"

You calmly reply "How much did your Vegas trip cost?"

And when you see her face scrunch up as she runs the numbers in her head, realizing she's not in a good position to be complaining about your purchase....

"I still get to enjoy this for more than a week"

*Duck quickly to avoid the oncoming slap*

 

[Canadiankeeper]

When she asks "HOW MUCH did that gun cost!?"

You calmly reply "How much did your Vegas trip cost?"

And when you see her face scrunch up as she runs the numbers in her head, realizing she's not in a good position to be complaining about your purchase....

"I still get to enjoy this for more than a week"

*Duck quickly to avoid the oncoming slap*

I made the mistake of teaching her boxing. I have to duck a right cross then slip a left hook.

Yea the only chance I have is by using Vegas against her! Now, what scope to put on that new tactical trainer? lol

 

[savagecanuck]

Yes I would love a new toy as well but I just upgraded my hunting quad and sold a few rifles and some surplus ammo to help fund it. A new anschutz will have to wait till fall.

 

[RabidM4U5]

Yes I would love a new toy as well but I just upgraded my hunting quad and sold a few rifles and some surplus ammo to help fund it. A new anschutz will have to wait till fall.

Never mind a new toy.... I've got an onslaught of custom barrels coming my way, I'm gunna be busy building and testing those suckers... not to mention I'm short two scopes for my current rifle line up.

Ahh, whats on the "eventually" list? A 54 action Annie, a Walther? Remington 40X for sure. It's nice to dream.

 

[savagecanuck]

Never mind a new toy.... I've got an onslaught of custom barrels coming my way, I'm gunna be busy building and testing those suckers... not to mention I'm short two scopes for my current rifle line up.

Ahh, whats on the "eventually" list? A 54 action Annie, a Walther? Remington 40X for sure. It's nice to dream.

After selling the MPR I now have a spare vortex HST 6-24×50.It's nice to have an optic ready to go. A new 54 action maybe this fall. I also have my eye on a T3 varmint 243 for my new deer rifle.

 

[RabidM4U5]

After selling the MPR I now have a spare vortex HST 6-24×50.

Yeah, when I sold my Savage MKII BTVS, I sold it as a package with the Bushnell 6-18x scope and Leupold rings. That glass was good enough to use in a pinch when load testing my .270, which otherwise wears a Leupold VX-II 3-9x. JC Custom Barrels (a Canadian custom barrel maker) has my .270 action now and says by the end of next week hopefully he'll have the barrel fitted, chambered and crowned for me. I have been bugging him to get going on .22 LR barrels since October last year... I have a CZ custom build just waiting for one of his barrels. I'm guinea pigging it for y'all, there is potential for a viable Canadian option for those wishing to customize their rimfires. He'll be doing it up to my specs that I provide, but if it is successful, I will pass on to him the relevant info and others can send their actions to him for barrel fitment. Please don't blow up his inbox asking about this.... I'm still several months away from getting this barrel from him and I can tell you right now his answer will be "I don't have time to start on that for several months". To quote from our correspondence:

"I'm sorry it's taking so much time but I've been swamped with work since September ended up buying 2 more lathes 1 milling machine setup for fluting and rewired and rearranged the whole shop to try and speed thing up.

I haven't got time to do 22 rf right away I need to clear out some barrels first sales have slowed down the last few weeks as expected for this time of year so I should be able to get caught up and have more time to concentrate on adding calibers in about 2 months .

Regards JC"