Evidence of Arsenal Repairs for Russian/Yugoslav/Other Milsurps

Coffice

Coffice

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Hi guys, I have a question and was wondering if anyone would be able to assist. I've been doing a lot of research on this and can't find anything out on it.

I'm looking at building a modest collection of Mauser variants from multiple nations, and cannot for the life of me find details on what the general practice of refurb, repair, and rebuild was for arsenal-held surplus weapons! We all know that RC K98's can be a hodgepodge of different parts, however I'd like to know what the identifiers would be for say, a stock that has been repaired, any sort of regrinding or erasure of stamps or wood repairs etc and what is commonly found evidence of an arsenal repair of common milsurp guns.

I'm hoping to learn how to identify weapons which have gone through a refurb vs weapons that haven't, outside of just replacing parts willy nilly. Here's an example of what I mean:

DSCN4789.jpg


You can see that there seems to be a second recoil lug nut behind the grip of this Mosin. Is this a repair from arsenal, factory, or other? Is this simply a different variant of Mosin which comes with this second lug nut?

Any clarification would really be appreciated.

Thanks so much guys!
 
Post-war replacement stocks for Mosins in the laminate pattern typically had a reinforcing bolt through the wrist. If you want to be able to identify which features are original to which Mosin you're going to need to spend some hours reading the Gunboard forums.
 
bp2626 said:
Post-war replacement stocks for Mosins in the laminate pattern typically had a reinforcing bolt through the wrist. If you want to be able to identify which features are original to which Mosin you're going to need to spend some hours reading the Gunboard forums.
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I've been reading Gunboards whenever I have questions and have had some good success in identifying markings and such (great resource).

Interesting that the reinforcing bolt is used in specifically post-war Mosins. Is this practice carried forward with other rifles in laminate? Also, do you have literature on that you could point me towards? I'm really curious as to these processes especially when weapons were captured by other countries, IE American capture indications, Russian, British etc.
 
Russian arsenal refurbs have refurb stamps on receiver and stock. I think I saw somewhere a guide to arsenal stamps.

One of my SVTs have a 2nd cross bolt in original slim stock. Another one with AVT stock doesn't.
 
Coffice said:
I've been reading Gunboards whenever I have questions and have had some good success in identifying markings and such (great resource).

Interesting that the reinforcing bolt is used in specifically post-war Mosins. Is this practice carried forward with other rifles in laminate? Also, do you have literature on that you could point me towards? I'm really curious as to these processes especially when weapons were captured by other countries, IE American capture indications, Russian, British etc.
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Post-production SKS stocks in the laminate pattern also typically have reinforcing bolts through the wrist.

Unfortunately, almost everything to do with Russian milsurps is learned through observation.

Almost all of the literature is of poor quality with misinformation with the exception of:

M91/30 Rifles and M38/M44 Carbines in 1941-1945: Accessories and Devices – History of Production, Development, and Maintenance, by Alexander Yuschenko

Which is excellent.

I have heard that there are various German and Russian language books which are also excellent but I have not read them.
 
There is lots of information out there towards what is common refurbishment practices for certain nations, it just isn't really condensed into one book. In terms of repairs, different nations did different things for different results. For example the Finnish and the Russians considered it acceptable to counter-bore Mosin Nagant barrels with worn crowns, well you will likely never see a Lee Enfield with one (as far as I am aware of no one did it, but with milsurps never say never).

Different markings were used by different nations as well. Some marked refurbished rifles (FTR markings, stampings in the stocks like how the Russians and Swiss did it, etc.), others didn't.

I have slowly been compiling information I have found for different markings for firearms into a book, that maybe one day 40 years from now might be complete. Many markings especially for less than popular firearms (Mannlicher rifles for example), haven't been documented much well others have.
 
BlackVoid said:
Russian arsenal refurbs have refurb stamps on receiver and stock. I think I saw somewhere a guide to arsenal stamps.

One of my SVTs have a 2nd cross bolt in original slim stock. Another one with AVT stock doesn't.
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I read that the commonly found "X" symbol is actually 2 crossed rifles indicating the weapon was no ready for re-issue/export! That's one of the refurb marks I've deciphered.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
There is lots of information out there towards what is common refurbishment practices for certain nations, it just isn't really condensed into one book. In terms of repairs, different nations did different things for different results. For example the Finnish and the Russians considered it acceptable to counter-bore Mosin Nagant barrels with worn crowns, well you will likely never see a Lee Enfield with one (as far as I am aware of no one did it, but with milsurps never say never).

Different markings were used by different nations as well. Some marked refurbished rifles (FTR markings, stampings in the stocks like how the Russians and Swiss did it, etc.), others didn't.

I have slowly been compiling information I have found for different markings for firearms into a book, that maybe one day 40 years from now might be complete. Many markings especially for less than popular firearms (Mannlicher rifles for example), haven't been documented much well others have.
Click to expand...

Interesting note on the Finnish refurb process, I did not know they would counter bore. I would assume Mosin refurb markings are mostly well documented, but again as mentioned it would seem personal observation is going to be the best help one can have.

As well as making threads on CGN! I've learned a lot already.
 
Yugoslav Mausers - M48, A,B, maybe others - there is a three digit number on the barrel shank/receiver area that should match the number on the bottom of the bolt handle. This is the assembly number. If they match then they are original to the rifle. Beside this number you may find a number of punch marks. Each time it was refurbished it got a punch.
 
Those arsenal cartouches on stock mean that stock was made at the arsenal, not refurbished. However stocks at arsenal were made for refurbished rifles. So it's kind of sign of refurbished rifle. One needs to look at receiver (SVT) or barrel shank (MN) or receiver cover (SKS) - arsenal mark there would indicate refurbishing. Also don't be confused with repair mark and arsenal refurbished mark. To add more confusion most refurbished SKSs have repair mark and no refurb marks.

This picture illustrates both repair (left) and refurbishing arsenal (right) markings on SKS cover.
1956pix56541531-1.jpg
 
Horilka said:
Those arsenal cartouches on stock mean that stock was made at the arsenal, not refurbished. However stocks at arsenal were made for refurbished rifles. So it's kind of sign of refurbished rifle. One needs to look at receiver (SVT) or barrel shank (MN) or receiver cover (SKS) - arsenal mark there would indicate refurbishing. Also don't be confused with repair mark and arsenal refurbished mark. To add more confusion most refurbished SKSs have repair mark and no refurb marks.

This picture illustrates both repair (left) and refurbishing arsenal (right) markings on SKS cover.
1956pix56541531-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Would this system be something other CommBloc nations may have employed as well?
 
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