Anschutz actions - can someone decipher them for me?

It was a bit of a facetious comment, myself I am using a Weatherby/Anschütz XXII for Hunter class and a 64 MSR for Standard class. I am fitting a Shilen barrel to my 64 MSR, though, and have ordered a Harrel tuner to be fitted to it (can't use for silhouette though, :(). Would love to see a 54 keep pace with me and this rifle/tuner (and lay to rest one action being more "accurate" than the other).
 
It was a bit of a facetious comment, myself I am using a Weatherby/Anschütz XXII for Hunter class and a 64 MSR for Standard class. I am fitting a Shilen barrel to my 64 MSR, though, and have ordered a Harrel tuner to be fitted to it (can't use for silhouette though, :(). Would love to see a 54 keep pace with me and this rifle/tuner (and lay to rest one action being more "accurate" than the other).

That would "lay to rest" the question of whether one was more "accurate" than the other?
 
Anyway you have to be one of kind shooter to get gear and equipment back up sponsors like Eley,Gruning & Elminger,Bleiker,Kurt Thune or centra.....name it ,and participate at lots of shooting even and winning few medals ��
and being born in Canada Qc which is not the best (province)country shooters-land either for that shooting type and practice.
 
That would "lay to rest" the question of whether one was more "accurate" than the other?

Yep (sure, sure.... "need thousands of samples for a scientifically sound conclusion"...) But at least it would demonstrate a solid thesis that it is not the "action" in which the majority of a rifle's accuracy lies.
 
i guess it's not a just matters of type of (actions) it's the thickness of the breech block stiffness and all those other factors like a faster firing pin drop will help the shooter for grouping etc....
 
Fast lock time is good for position shooters, doesn't really matter for bench shooters. Action stiffness isn't directly relatable to accuracy either, in that it can be said a stiffer action will produce more accuracy than a "floppier" one. It's all about the vibration occurring in a predictable and repeatable manner.
 
Yep (sure, sure.... "need thousands of samples for a scientifically sound conclusion"...) But at least it would demonstrate a solid thesis that it is not the "action" in which the majority of a rifle's accuracy lies.

Indeed, it is rarely simply one component or part of a system that explains the results it produces. In the case of shooting, among the factors involved there is also the barrel, the stock, the front rest and rear bag, the optics, and the ammo. There is also the question of the shooter, too. He is a great part of the equation, so much so that the same equipment often produces different results for different shooters.

If it were not for the human factor, an inventory of components accrued by means of deep pockets would be all that is needed to determine accuracy. The act of shooting would hardly be needed.
 
Fast lock time is good for position shooters, doesn't really matter for bench shooters. Action stiffness isn't directly relatable to accuracy either, in that it can be said a stiffer action will produce more accuracy than a "floppier" one. It's all about the vibration occurring in a predictable and repeatable manner.
Agree re lock time, but not so sure about action stiffness. I believe the consensus is that a single-shot action will generally outperform a repeater of the same design with the cutout for the magazine. Part of the reason that all BR actions are single-shot (aside from the fact that single loading is all that's needed in BR competition). Vibration concerns the barrel.
 
There is also the question of the shooter, too. He is a great part of the equation, so much so that the same equipment often produces different results for different shooters.

If it were not for the human factor, an inventory of components accrued by means of deep pockets would be all that is needed to determine accuracy. The act of shooting would hardly be needed.

This is why we have competitions :) Once the finest components have been acquired and assembled, it is then a matter of who has procured the finest lot of ammunition for their rifle, found the ideal tuner setting, further fine tuned this setting for the atmospheric conditions of the day, and is best able to read the wind whilst shooting. High level bench rest is pretty well decided on who can best read the wind, as all of the rigs and ammunition could be considered equally accurate. Center fire guys will often bring reloading equipment with them, in order to fine tune their load for the days conditions, much as a rimfire shooter would adjust their barrel tuner.


Agree re lock time, but not so sure about action stiffness. I believe the consensus is that a single-shot action will generally outperform a repeater of the same design with the cutout for the magazine. Part of the reason that all BR actions are single-shot (aside from the fact that single loading is all that's needed in BR competition). Vibration concerns the barrel.

The system vibrates as a whole, barrel to action to stock to rest to bench. I found an article where a shooter had observed his tuner setting established on a wooden bench resulted in the rifle going out of tune on a concrete bench, using the same rest. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek080.html

For an anecdotal point of view, go on RFC and ask dnttech (Bob) which of his rifles is more accurate, his DJ Custom 455, or his full custom Turbo build. DJ is also doing up a Savage MKII custom for fun/R&D, looking forward to seeing his results with that. With the evidence that I've seen, I'm convinced that as long as your action is of decent design, there is little accuracy to be gained from the action alone, and the minute differences are trumped by other factors (such as barrel, and especially ammo quality.)
 
The system vibrates as a whole, barrel to action to stock to rest to bench. I found an article where a shooter had observed his tuner setting established on a wooden bench resulted in the rifle going out of tune on a concrete bench, using the same rest. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek080.html

For an anecdotal point of view, go on RFC and ask dnttech (Bob) which of his rifles is more accurate, his DJ Custom 455, or his full custom Turbo build. DJ is also doing up a Savage MKII custom for fun/R&D, looking forward to seeing his results with that. With the evidence that I've seen, I'm convinced that as long as your action is of decent design, there is little accuracy to be gained from the action alone, and the minute differences are trumped by other factors (such as barrel, and especially ammo quality.)
It's certainly true that all components have to be considered when discussing accuracy. However, the majority opinion re single-shot vs. magazine is that, all else being equal, single-shot is associated with slightly better accuracy. I believe that part of the reason is action stiffness, but another factor is chamber design, which may differ from a tight match chamber on a single-shot vs. a slightly looser chamber on a repeater to aid in loading from the magazine. This latter point isn't strictly about action stiffness, but is worth noting.

If all else is equal--barrels, stocks, optics,, etc., etc.--then a single-shot action will, on average over the long haul, do slightly better than the corresponding magazine-fed action. This doesn't mean that you can't find numerous examples of the reverse seeming to be true (as with your example of a DJ custom vs. a Turbo build), but this kind of small-sample result is not scientifically reliable. As a frequent consumer of RFC, I must say that DJ has certainly got a lot of free publicity for his work on that forum. I wonder whether, in time, he'll get the same treatment that Steve Boelter got.
 
The 64 action is lot more fragile compare to 54 action and less air tight head space and got
Lot more vibration when fired,the 54 has a lot better trigger mechanism
Anschutz usually utilize their low end barrels of the line for the 64 actions
I actually own both actions and grouping are more tight with the 54 in comparison
The 64 bolt it self are made from casting hardened at one end
and sometime they break in 2 pieces.

I hope to own my first 64 in 2017, so I have to look into this further. However, I do own a model 1450 and for sure...it's a much lesser gun than even the 64. I know the trigger is for sure. :) BUT, having put more rounds through that 1450 than maybe all my other 22s combined without a single glitch with the bolt..I have to wonder whether or not there is any cause for concern with the 64 bolt. I'm thinking "no".

For the record, the 1450 is the only rimfire on my "never sell" list. Too nice a little gun, too accurate, too much fun! :)
 
It was a bit of a facetious comment, myself I am using a Weatherby/Anschütz XXII for Hunter class and a 64 MSR for Standard class. I am fitting a Shilen barrel to my 64 MSR, though, and have ordered a Harrel tuner to be fitted to it (can't use for silhouette though, :(). Would love to see a 54 keep pace with me and this rifle/tuner (and lay to rest one action being more "accurate" than the other).

Tuners are legal for Standard Rifle class Silhoutte - not for Hunter
 
I hope to own my first 64 in 2017, so I have to look into this further. However, I do own a model 1450 and for sure...it's a much lesser gun than even the 64. I know the trigger is for sure. :) BUT, having put more rounds through that 1450 than maybe all my other 22s combined without a single glitch with the bolt..I have to wonder whether or not there is any cause for concern with the 64 bolt. I'm thinking "no".

You're right to think "no". The 64 action is very reliable. There is no discussion that I can find on RFC of the bolt breaking as alleged by Annie58. The consensus there would be that the 64 action is a very good one, especially the newer, heavier one available since 2009.
 
This is why we have competitions :) Once the finest components have been acquired and assembled, it is then a matter of who has procured the finest lot of ammunition for their rifle, found the ideal tuner setting, further fine tuned this setting for the atmospheric conditions of the day, and is best able to read the wind whilst shooting. High level bench rest is pretty well decided on who can best read the wind, as all of the rigs and ammunition could be considered equally accurate.

It is true that the highest level bench shooters determine their degree of success on how well they may read the wind on a given day. Of course, when there's little wind to read, such as indoor shooting or on the very calmest of days, something breaks the deuce even when all other things are equal, including the best ammunition for each rifle. Not all people engaged in human activity are always blessed with equal skills. Some are better than others, even if only by the slight degree that may distinguish the highest level BR shooters. Furthermore, BR shooting is not unchanging and static. Improvements are always sought and made, new materials and technology is adapted, and shooters practice and practice some more. Factors such as these continue to separate all shooters' results.

In any case, even if none of the above were true, and only the equipment, ammo, tuner adjustment, and wind reading ability were at issue in high level BR shooting, no one posting on this thread can claim to be a high level BR shooter and so the human factor is as much at play as it is in every other shooting discipline. As a result none of us here can divorce his shooting results from his shooting ability.
 
A quick search on RFC showed a couple posts of broken bolts on 64 actions. I'm inclined to think the problem would arise from improper assembly after cleaning. Have two 64's, no problems.
 
Tuners are legal for Standard Rifle class Silhoutte - not for Hunter

(e) Attachments which do not cause any portion of the rifle to exceed the weight
or dimensions as listed herein are permitted provided they do not extend past the
end of the barrel. Sighting devices are not considered "attachments".

This rule would seem to indicate that a tuner, being an attachment that extends past the end of the barrel, is illegal. The rules do not specifically address tuners for Standard class rifles, there are mixed opinions on interpreting this rule. I'd have to try it, but a tuner may also upset the balance of the rifle for offhand hold, and I might not like the feel of it that way.

It's certainly true that all components have to be considered when discussing accuracy. However, the majority opinion re single-shot vs. magazine is that, all else being equal, single-shot is associated with slightly better accuracy. I believe that part of the reason is action stiffness,

If all else is equal--barrels, stocks, optics,, etc., etc.--then a single-shot action will, on average over the long haul, do slightly better than the corresponding magazine-fed action. This doesn't mean that you can't find numerous examples of the reverse seeming to be true (as with your example of a DJ custom vs. a Turbo build), but this kind of small-sample result is not scientifically reliable. As a frequent consumer of RFC, I must say that DJ has certainly got a lot of free publicity for his work on that forum. I wonder whether, in time, he'll get the same treatment that Steve Boelter got.

Perhaps there is this perception as most single shot rifles are purpose built for high level accuracy, and repeaters geared towards hunting, plinking, position shooting, etc, with stocks that are less favorable for bench rest. When a repeater action is re-worked into a custom build and set into a dedicated benchrest stock, is the accuracy potential not right up there with the single shot actions? Sure, one example doesn't form a definite conclusion, if another two 455's and Turbo customs were built, it is anyone's guess which would be more accurate. The factors that I think weigh more heavily towards the accuracy outcome is the individual barrel fitted to the action, and chamber design. Custom gunsmiths are sometimes playing around with several chamber designs to see what works best, most often. To keep building 455 vs Turbo rifles infinitely, the outcome would likely flip-flop with no real trend towards better accuracy. One time the Turbo wins, the next the 455 does, etc, and the difference we're talking about is really minor. dnttech himself says that it is a very, very slight difference.

In honest curiosity, by what mechanism does the property of an action being "stiffer" improve a rifles accuracy? As far as I can visualize this, I agree there is a need for a certain level of stiffness to "control" the barrel under the stress of firing, lest it flop around like a wet noodle, but beyond this "control" level, does additional stiffness actually benefit accuracy? Perhaps we could infer some conclusions investigating results shot from a barrel block rig in which the action is floated, and the job of controlling the barrel is passed on to the block, so action stiffness is of no relevance. I'd have to see what I can dig up here, but I doubt I'll find what I want, which is comparing barrel block accuracy to action in stock accuracy. If it is possible to achieve the same accuracy with the action in the stock as it is observed in the barrel block, with several makes and models of actions, then action stiffness is not a significant concern. Or perhaps it could be found that only the stiffer actions better match the barrel block accuracy. It would be an interesting experiment to try.

no one posting on this thread can claim to be a high level BR shooter and so the human factor is as much at play as it is in every other shooting discipline. As a result none of us here can divorce his shooting results from his shooting ability.

Fair, I'm likely stopping my journey down the rabbit hole just short of getting one of those precision made one piece rests and a free-recoil benchrest stock. My hope is to get a custom build dialed in to the degree where my errors become obviously perceivable, since as it is I'm not getting reliable feedback on my target results, so it's hard to improve my technique if I cannot relate a mistake to a definite target result.

This benchrest arms race madness gets a little frustrating at times, and that is why I enjoy Silhouette much more. It is in this discipline that I can say with 98% certainty that any misses were my fault, and easily determine what I need to work on to improve my results, and that would be my hold and technique, rather than equipment tuning. There is always room for improvement, and I'd have to look it up, but has anyone shot a perfect round? If not, then one may always hope to try and achieve this lofty goal, after all, people bowl perfect games and get hole in ones, anything is possible.
 
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A quick search on RFC showed a couple posts of broken bolts on 64 actions. I'm inclined to think the problem would arise from improper assembly after cleaning. Have two 64's, no problems.

If there are a couple of posts about broken bolts on 64 Anschutz rifles, then it is small potatoes when compared to the enormous number of posts about 64's that don't ever complain about the problem alleged by Annie58. Many of the bolt issues discussed are, as noted by metalbender, related to owner (mis)assembly problems.

Here's a list of posts that relate to 64 bolts h t t p s:/ /w w w.google.com/search?as_q=broken+anschutz+64+bolt&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=rimfirecentral.com&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=#q=broken+anschutz+64+bolt+site:rimfirecentral.com&as_qdr=all&start=0&spf=1495761178006
 
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