SEI Extended Bolt Release (Help)

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Yail Bloor

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Seeking the expert opinion of the M14 gurus we have here, or anyone with experience with the SEI Extended Bolt Release. I received and installed one on my Norc M305, but testing it's function has revealed some issues. To wit: the bolt hold open doesn't work with three magazines I bought from MagWedge. When I remove an empty mag, the bolt slams home. It does seem to function (in the limited testing I did) with the 2 Norc mags I have.

Troubleshooting:

1. I observed the MagWedge mags compared to the Norc, and I notice the follower on the former does not protrude quite as high in the back left portion (part that interacts with the bolt stop) as it does on the latter. I believe this part of the follower is not lifting the bolt stop/release high enough to interface with the bolt. It is probably worth noting that the factory bolt stop worked fine with all my mags.

2. The SEI bolt release came with a roll pin that it rides rather stiffly on. I tried the original Norc pin as well, same outcome. By stiffly, I mean that the bolt release doesn't move under the spring pressure of the bolt stop. And in fact takes more force then I would think necessary to engage. I wonder if this too isn't a factor in causing the release to fail to engage the bolt.

So, my questions I guess are: Can the bolt stop be modified in anyway to ensure it will function with all my mags? I'm thinking bore out the hole the roll pin goes through, and/or build up the bottom surface that interacts with the mag followers with JB Weld or something? Additionally, has anyone used the MagWedge extended bolt release and encountered the same problem?

I was pretty stoked about this upgrade, but it's caused a bigger issue then I meant it to solve. If I can't rectify the issue it's going up on the EE, but I'd like to exhaust my options first. All help appreciated, thanks much.

Edit: So after a lot of playing around, swapping parts, taking measurements, not to mention more help than I deserve from Dave at MagWedge, I determined this was a magazine follower issue. Neither the SEI nor the MagWedge bolt release was the issue. Additionally, it was not the MagWedge purchased magazines either, but an out of spec follower. Thank you Dave for helping me out with this. Thanks also to everyone who offered suggestions, as they did help with the proper function of these parts.
 
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Yail Bloor said:
I mean that the bolt release doesn't move under the spring pressure of the bolt stop.
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If the bolt stop does not move freely and easily on its spring with the magazine removed and the bolt held back by you, then you can open up (very carefully) the size of the hole in the bolt stop (not the receiver). The stop should very easily. You would only want to go one single drill bit size bigger than the one that will fit in it now. EDIT: my spare USGI bolt stop is barely smaller than 7/64"... so maybe a 37 or 38 bit size, about 0.1018" maybe. Hopefully one who knows better than I can tell.

Once you do that then other things can be looked at: the strength of the magazine springs and so forth.
 
Aniest said:
If the bolt stop does not move freely and easily on its spring with the magazine removed and the bolt held back by you, then you can open up (very carefully) the size of the hole in the bolt stop (not the receiver). The stop should very easily. You would only want to go one single drill bit size bigger than the one that will fit in it now.

Once you do that then other things can be looked at: the strength of the magazine springs and so forth.
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That makes sense, but I am hesitant to do anything to effect resale value in case I can't solve the problem. Also, all mags are practically brand new, isn't it safe to assume the springs are tip-top?
 
Looking at my M305/M14/M1A platform (have have a USGI & misc parts made unit) I see two things:
1. The aftermarket oversize bolt stop I have, an oversized button but not extended type, moves very freely on the roll pin. The pin is jammed very tight into the receiver but the hole in the stop for that pin is loose enough for me to push it around easily (slides sideways on the pin, rocks on the pin slightly).
2. There is a "sizeable lump" on the mag followers to engage the stop (one Norc mag, one USGI 5/20 mag, misc unmarked 5 rounders and 5/20 rounders). The springs in all of them are pretty stiff (inserting a 5 rounder full on a closed bolt is a pain because of the spring) as it only takes a small amount of rocking, not full pressure, to move the follower out of the way of the stop.

The resale on the aftermarket stop won't change if you open it up carefully, as long as you don't completely wreck it. As long as you have the Norc pin and stop (and they can be put back in the rifle to work on the Norc mag) you won't change the resale on the rifle.
 
every SEI bolt stop I installed over the years, and there has been dozens + , I used the same method.
gently grab one end of the roll pin with a plier or vice grip. You just want to hold it , not crush it.
Apply lapping compound to the pin and insert into the bolt stop hole, rotating the pin as you gently push it in as far as you can and still spin it.
It will take some time, 1/2 hour maybe a bit more but eventually the pin will mate to the hole. The end you held it with should stay original diameter and when you do final install, that end of the pin stays at the rear, ensuring the pin can't walk out.
It is the BEST way to get a precise fit.
For what it's worth, if a magazine doesn't work with an SEI bolt stop , that magazine is not USGI spec.
 
Yail Bloor said:
Seeking the expert opinion of the M14 gurus we have here, or anyone with experience with the SEI Extended Bolt Release. I received and installed one on my Norc M305, but testing it's function has revealed some issues. To wit: the bolt hold open doesn't work with three magazines I bought from MagWedge. When I remove an empty mag, the bolt slams home. It does seem to function (in the limited testing I did) with the 2 Norc mags I have.

Troubleshooting:

1. I observed the MagWedge mags compared to the Norc, and I notice the follower on the former does not protrude quite as high in the back left portion (part that interacts with the bolt stop) as it does on the latter. I believe this part of the follower is not lifting the bolt stop/release high enough to interface with the bolt. It is probably worth noting that the factory bolt stop worked fine with all my mags.

2. The SEI bolt release came with a roll pin that it rides rather stiffly on. I tried the original Norc pin as well, same outcome. By stiffly, I mean that the bolt release doesn't move under the spring pressure of the bolt stop. And in fact takes more force then I would think necessary to engage. I wonder if this too isn't a factor in causing the release to fail to engage the bolt.

So, my questions I guess are: Can the bolt stop be modified in anyway to ensure it will function with all my mags? I'm thinking bore out the hole the roll pin goes through, and/or build up the bottom surface that interacts with the mag followers with JB Weld or something? Additionally, has anyone used the MagWedge extended bolt release and encountered the same problem?

I was pretty stoked about this upgrade, but it's caused a bigger issue then I meant it to solve. If I can't rectify the issue it's going up on the EE, but I'd like to exhaust my options first. All help appreciated, thanks much.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that we opened up the hole very slightly on our Enhanced Bolt Releases to deal with this issue, just as you seem to be considering. It's a very slight modification, so don't overdo it ...

To answer your other question I have not had anyone contact me and tell me they are having issues that you describe with our EBR14, so I suspect it is working well with the mags we sell.
 
Pop said:
Could it be an out-of-spec bolt?
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I suppose it could be Pop but the law of averages from an "on the bench" point of view , would blame the magazine follower, and rule that out before suspecting the bolt.
In cases where the bolt catch does engage but the bolt slams shut when the magazine is removed.... then obviously we would be inspecting the bolt or the engagement tab on the bolt stop itself. Rarely did I come across a situation where the bolt was the culprit. Maybe twice in several hundred rifles? That said, I haven't been working on these rifles en masse for a couple years or more now so who knows what kinda stuff is showing up now parts wise.
 
I'll add that we can't blame or suspect any of the magazines, bolts or bolt stops , untill said bolt stop is installed correctly and functioning as designed.
I highly suggest the OP take his chinese roll pin and use the lapping compound method to work that pin to fit the bolt stop. Don't be a hack and try using a drill or file please.
the end you grasp with the pliers or vice grip should not be lapped so it retains it's diameter so as to correctly fit the receiver hole still.
hope I'm making sense.
 
45ACPKING said:
I'll add that we can't blame or suspect any of the magazines, bolts or bolt stops , untill said bolt stop is installed correctly and functioning as designed.
I highly suggest the OP take his chinese roll pin and use the lapping compound method to work that pin to fit the bolt stop. Don't be a hack and try using a drill or file please.
the end you grasp with the pliers or vice grip should not be lapped so it retains it's diameter so as to correctly fit the receiver hole still.
hope I'm making sense.
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I follow completely. Is there a specific brand or grit of compound I should look for?
 
hit up your local auto parts store for the finest valve lapping compound they sell. You can cut it with a couple drops of 3in1 type oil or gun lube. it may take a bit and you will no doubt be cursing my suggestion before it's complete haha .... but it is the best way (I think).
i cover the bolt stop with masking tape , exposing just the hole so to not ruin the finish with mucky fingers and lapping compound. Just work slow, rotating the bolt stop on the pin , cleaning and reapplying frequently. Once some of the pin enters the whole with no binding when it's clean, I try not to get much compound in the hole, and just on the remainder of the pin. It's all pretty simple and gives a correct fit. Just remember to leave the last 3/32" or so of the pin the full diameter or it will be loose in the receiver at the back end. Good luck !!
 
45ACPKING said:
it may take a bit and you will no doubt be cursing my suggestion before it's complete haha .... but it is the best way (I think).
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Yeah, no, I got this. Tedious bit-by-bit grind is my preferred solution anyway. I'll use the Chinese pin so I don't compromise the SEI roll pin. Very much appreciate the advice. I'll be back to report once I get it done.
 
Okay, so I followed 45ACPKING's advice, the bolt release moves freely now, and the problem is better but not fixed. Now the bolt stop sometimes engages with the MagWedge magazines, and sometimes it engages so minimally that the act of inserting a new mag causes the bolt to slam home. I took a picture to illustrate what I was trying to describe in my first post. Norc mag on the left, MagWedge mag on the right:

IMG_0278_zpsi7exzflo.jpg


You can clearly see that the surface that engages the bolt release is not as high and sharply angled on the MagWedge mags. If I am mindful to apply rear-ward pressure to the magazine before removal, the bolt release is pushed up high enough to engage. So, where to go from here? Do I sell or trade my MagWedge mags in exchange for Norc or USGI mags? Another thought crossed my mind, and I took a picture to help explain my thinking:

IMG_0279_zpsjqqqzcde.jpg


This is my original Norc bolt stop, but the groove seems to be the same on the SEI bolt release. I was wondering if filling that slot with JB Weld might better engage the bolt release with the MagWedge mags, but it occurred to me that if I did that it could cause issues with the Norc mags. I'm just brainstorming here, but I would love any input.
 
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MagWedge Industries said:
Perhaps try a different follower in the magazine you think is giving you trouble and see if that makes any difference ... I have a feeling that groove is necessary.
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Probably best not to mess with it yes. Anyway, all three of the mags I got from you guys are identical, the followers all look like that and all three give me trouble.

I feel like I should say at this point that I am not trying to criticize your product, they seem to be well made and functional magazines, there just not quite compatible with the SEI product. Or I'm incompetent, which is entire possible as I'm a relatively new gun owner.
 
I am just thinking if you can switch the followers from a norc mag and make it work, whatever the issue is you will have a functional setup. I suppose l am thinking it may be possible to source some followers at a decent price somewhere.

It does make me curious as to whether our Enhanced Bolt Release would function with your rifle and the mags we sold you. I expect that if the problem were widespread we would have had some feedback from others as l have sold many of both items with no complaints. I hope that doesn't sound defensive, it just makes me wonder what the issue is.

If you want to try one of our bolt releases send me an email and we will sort something out.
 
MagWedge Industries said:
I hope that doesn't sound defensive, it just makes me wonder what the issue is.
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound defensive at all, I appreciate any and all information helping solve this issue. I will send you an email.

And again, I want it made clear to anyone reading this I don't blame MagWedge for this issue; this is a compatibility issue and not an indictment of their business, which I regard highly.
 
happens with many mags, not just magwedges. It's all about that follower tab being in spec. Can clearly see the mag on the left it quite dimensionally different at the bolt catch engagement area. I've met mags that were too robust in that area as well.
glad the pin fitting method seems to have mostly worked ? ;)
 
45ACPKING said:
happens with many mags, not just magwedges. It's all about that follower tab being in spec. Can clearly see the mag on the left it quite dimensionally different at the bolt catch engagement area. I've met mags that were too robust in that area as well.
glad the pin fitting method seems to have mostly worked ? ;)
Click to expand...

It was a good tip, and I thank you for it. I'll be trying the MagWedge bolt release to see if there is a difference.
 
So after a lot of playing around, swapping parts, taking measurements, not to mention more help than I deserve from Dave at MagWedge, I determined this was a magazine follower issue. Neither the SEI nor the MagWedge bolt release was the issue. Additionally, it was not the MagWedge purchased magazines either, but an out of spec follower. Thank you Dave for helping me out with this. Thanks also to everyone who offered suggestions, as they did help with the proper function of these parts.
 
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