Lee-enfield saw ww1/2 service? Anyway way to know?
- Thread starter jona710
- Start date
Look at the base of the barrel near the receiver for an arsenal acceptance stamp, which indicates it was "accepted into service" by one military or another.
The British, Kiwis, Aussies, Canada, other nations all had different arsenal stamps, and it's a whole "thing" to know them all.
The stamp won't tell you for sure whether it saw action, but if the year is right, and it has an acceptance stamp, then the odds are "good".
The British, Kiwis, Aussies, Canada, other nations all had different arsenal stamps, and it's a whole "thing" to know them all.
The stamp won't tell you for sure whether it saw action, but if the year is right, and it has an acceptance stamp, then the odds are "good".
Thanks for the info! I'm thinking 1916 would've been a pretty good year for it!
All you can be sure of is that the military accepted it. The rifle's actual experience will be lost to time. It could have been on the front or it could have been guarding a barracks in Ireland. Who knows?
Horizontal arrow, British.
Vertical arrow, New Zealand.
Starter pack guide to Enfield markings:
https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=gh7.htm
https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=gh10.htm
https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=gh11.htm
https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=gh12.htm
Past that, things can get pretty esoteric. The Lee Enfield pattern rifles had a very long service life, and the individual guns themselves had a habit of "travelling" between different armies, gaining stamps (or getting over-stamped) along the way.
I have a No 1 Mk III that was made in England in 1917, got the British broad arrow on the receiver, and then after the war must have been sold to Canada (best I can guess), where it got the rifling shot out of it in training between the two wars, because the barrel itself has a C broad arrow (Canadian acceptance stamp), and a Longbranch Arsenal marking.
It's a whole weird thing, because Longbranch only got stood up at the beginning of WWII, by which time the Canadian army had moved on to No. 4 Mk I pattern rifles. But at the very beginning, the Canadian army was desperate for as many "sticks that go bang" as they could get, so some number (several thousand, no one really knows, the documentation is lacking) No. 1 Mk III rifles were re-barrelled and pressed into service. Most of those ended up with "Home Guard" type units, or POW Guards (lots of POW camps scattered around Canada during the war).
It's a fun game to play, look at all the stamps on an old surplus rifle, and ponder on "the stories this rifle could tell" - but you never really know for sure.
In 1939, Canada had Lee Enfield and Ross rifles in inventory, totalling over 200,000 rifles. There were more Ross rifles than SMLEs. Canadian troops overseas used the SMLE until well into the War. No. 4s were not issued until the inventory had built up to the point that widespread conversion was possible.
A SMLE made in 1916 could have seen service in the field, in a training camp, wherever.
Sometimes it is possible to determine whether or not a thing saw active service. Sometimes pieces are unit marked.
A SMLE made in 1916 could have seen service in the field, in a training camp, wherever.
Sometimes it is possible to determine whether or not a thing saw active service. Sometimes pieces are unit marked.
So you've got a 1916 SMLE that was in Canadian service, probably in WWI. The two arrows with tips touching is called the "sale mark" and means the item was sold as surplus at some point. At the end of WWI our 600,000 odd troops turned in most of their rifles before embarking for Canada, some before they embarked for England even. I suspect when they got around to inspecting these rifles, the ones that needed too much work or didn't have enough life left were sold off like this one was.
With millions of SMLE's on hand in 1919 why spend money overhauling them when you're only going to store a few hundred thousand at most and the peacetime army will need even less?
It's also possible it as sold off in Canada post-WWII, but there's no way to tell now.
The rifle in post # 8 was rebarreled in 1943, so it had probably seen lots of use since 1939. Long Branch did make up new SMLE barrels during WWII.
With millions of SMLE's on hand in 1919 why spend money overhauling them when you're only going to store a few hundred thousand at most and the peacetime army will need even less?
It's also possible it as sold off in Canada post-WWII, but there's no way to tell now.
The rifle in post # 8 was rebarreled in 1943, so it had probably seen lots of use since 1939. Long Branch did make up new SMLE barrels during WWII.
Tiriaq, when did Canada dump those Ross rifles? I'm guessing non saw any WW2 action.
