Ontario Hunters - Respond to EBR Posting on Proposed Licencing Changes

Chas

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As part of the ongoing efforts to do less and spend less, the MNR is proposing to amend licencing and tagging requirements for hunting. It is posted on the EBR Registry and is posting ER# 013-0487. There is a 60 day review period that ends on July 28

http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTMyNTI1&statusId=MjAxMjQy&language=en

The proposed changes are as follows - note requirement to carry proof of passing Canadian Firearm Safety Course;


The following amendments are being proposed to Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting) and Ontario Regulation 664/98 (Fish Licensing) to support the renewal of Ontario’s hunting and fishing licensing system. Note: consequential amendments to additional regulations under the FWCA would be required if the proposals below are implemented.

Outdoors Card Modernization
• Amend regulations to create a single Outdoors Card, which would eliminate the different versions of Outdoors Card (e.g. H1, H2, Fishing). Select licences would still be available to be printed on the Outdoors Card, which would continue to function as sufficient proof of the licence(s) issued to a client.
• Amend regulations to clarify the requirement for residents to carry a proof of successfully completing the non-restricted Canadian Firearms Safety Course if an individual is hunting or trapping with a gun (e.g. Firearm Possession and Acquisition Licence, Minor’s Licence, Canadian Firearms Safety Course Report indicating a successful pass).
• Amend regulations to clarify the requirement for non-residents to carry proof of Canadian Firearms Program licensing if an individual hunting or trapping with a gun (e.g. Firearm Possession and Acquisition Licence, Non-Resident Firearm Declaration, Temporary Firearms Borrowing Licence for Non-Residents).
• Hunter accreditation (and apprentice hunter status, if applicable) would be maintained in the new licensing system as a means of determining if an individual is permitted to buy hunting licences and apply to draws.
• This proposed change is expected to simplify licensing and improve client service (e.g. eliminate the need for clients to get a new Outdoors Card upgrade if they get their hunter accreditation or change their hunting class from H2 to H1), as well as reducing costs associated with maintaining and producing multiple versions of the Outdoors Card.

Licensing Modernization
• Simplify the regulations and reduce the number of components that make up a licence, reflecting a modernized approach to licensing by creating a single licence document that would list all of the clients’ valid licences. These changes would help to reduce the many different types and formats of hunting and fishing licences, and allow for licences to be self-printed at a client’s home if they desire.
• As part of this proposal, clients would have the option of having their licence document delivered to them digitally (e.g. email) and allow them to maintain the document in a digital format (e.g. on a smartphone), which would eliminate the need to print the licence document for those clients that would prefer to maintain a digital copy.
• The printed paper copy of the licence document would continue to be maintained for those clients who prefer to have a hardcopy of their licences in hand. The system would allow for the licence document to be printed or reprinted by the client or by request at a licence issuer location (e.g. following the purchase of a licence or prior to going fishing or hunting).
• This proposed change is expected to reduce the complexity associated with the current hunting and fishing licensing approach (e.g. would reduce the number of licence documents that need to be printed and carried by clients), as well as reduce costs associated with producing and delivering multiple types of hunting and fishing licences.

Game Seal Modernization
• Amend regulations to modernize the approach to hunting ‘game seals’. This change would transform the way that ‘game seals’ are used, how they function and are delivered to clients.
• As part of this proposal, ‘game seals’ would be replaced by ‘Tags’, which the client could self-print from their own computer or potentially be printed by a licence issuer through the new licensing system.
• The new licensing system would provide the relevant ‘Tags’ to each hunter according to their purchased licences and draw results.
• Hunters would continue to be required to carry their relevant ‘Tags’ with them when hunting and would need to notch the ‘Tag’ at time of harvest.
• Under this proposed approach, hunters would need to attach the ‘Tag’ to the harvested animal if they were no longer accompanying the animal (e.g. transferring to another person, leaving unattended at hunt camp, etc.). In these cases, the client would be required to ensure it remains intact and readable for compliance and field enforcement purposes. There are a number of tag holding products available to hunters to assist with protecting their ‘Tag’.
• In addition, the ministry would restructure and re-label select licence products in regulations to reflect this new approach and reduce duplication in some licence products (e.g. wild turkey licence would become a wild turkey ‘Tag’ issued under a Small Game Licence, wolf/coyote game seal would become a wolf/coyote ‘Tag’, etc).
• This proposed change is expected to improve client service and modernize service delivery related to the issuance of game seals/tags (e.g. no longer require clients to visit licence issuer in person in some cases, provide full online service, less reliance on paper-based approach and postal services), as well as reducing costs related to printing, mailing, print machines and paper stock at licence issuers. • •More information is available below through the link under “Other Information”

Hunter-Harvest Reporting Modernization
• Amend regulations to modernize hunter-harvest reporting, which includes changes to mandatory reporting requirements, deadlines for reporting, and the consequences of not completing mandatory reporting requirements. The following regulatory changes are proposed:
„« Require all hunters (licence and/or tag holders depending on the species) to provide information on hunting activity and harvest for black bear, moose, elk, white-tailed deer, wild turkey and wolf/coyote (where tags/seals are required).
„« Maintain regulatory requirements for tourist outfitter and non-resident hunter reporting where they exist and establish reporting requirements in regulation where they don’t currently exist.
„« Establish more consistent reporting timelines across species that allow hunters adequate time to return from their hunt and provide their report, while requiring data to be submitted in a timely manner to ensure data quality and support timely harvest planning.
„« Implement a more efficient and effective tracking scheme that is administered automatically by the new licensing system. Under the new scheme, a hunter who does not complete a mandatory report may not be eligible to purchase a licence (or licences) in a future year. The ministry would implement a phased-in approach to ensure that the public is properly informed. This scheme would be in addition to existing set fines for non-reporting offences that could also be applied in some circumstances.
• Other specific changes would include eliminating the following reporting requirements that are no longer necessary:
„« reporting requirement for regulated hunting camp licence holders in the Geographic Townships of Bruton and Clyde, and
„« mandatory registration (i.e. check station) requirement for individuals that harvest a moose in controlled calf moose harvest management units.
• Related non-regulatory changes being pursued include eliminating mailing of questionnaires and moving to electronic reporting channels (i.e. telephone, online and possible mobile app), improved communications with hunters including reminders, and considering possible incentives to encourage reporting.
• These proposed changes to hunter-harvest reporting are expected to improve client service by establishing greater consistency in reporting timelines and making the submission of reports more accessible and easier for clients to complete. These proposed changes are also expected to improve hunter reporting rates and allow for more timely harvest planning, which will improve the ministry’s management program.

• More information is available below through the link under “Other Information”

Hunter Apprenticeship Program Modernization

• Amend regulations to modernize and enhance the Hunter Apprenticeship Program by requiring apprentice hunters to obtain an Outdoors Card and allowing them the option of purchasing hunting licences or tags that are not obtained through a draw (e.g. small game licence, wild turkey tag, antlered deer licence). This would allow apprentice hunters to have the option of hunting under their own licence/bag limit or continuing to hunt under their mentor’s licence/bag limit.
• In the proposed approach, the existing Hunter Apprenticeship Card would be replaced by an Outdoors Card. All other existing rules associated with apprentice hunters would remain unchanged (e.g. apprentice hunters would still be required to hunt under the direct and immediate supervision of a mentor and share a single firearm with a mentor).
• Under this proposal, the ministry is also proposing to maintain the requirement for parental/guardian consent to obtain an Outdoors Card for 12 to 15 year olds, but will no longer require the submission of multiple parental/guardian consent forms for each activity throughout the Hunter Apprentice Program (e.g. currently parental/guardian consent forms are submitted to obtain a Hunter Apprenticeship Card, obtain/upgrade an Outdoors Card, and purchase a hunting licence for each species).
• This proposed change is expected to simplify the licensing approach for apprentice hunters and provide additional opportunities for them to safely develop their hunting skills while under the direct and immediate supervision of a qualified mentor. In addition, it is expected to eliminate the administrative costs of maintaining separate hunter identification cards for apprentice hunters, and repurpose those savings to other areas within the fish and wildlife program.

Hunter Accreditation Streamlining
• Amend regulations to streamline the qualification requirements for Ontario residents and non-residents to obtain an Outdoors Card to reflect potential changes associated with the proposal noted above on ‘Outdoors Card Modernization’ (e.g. elimination of multiple classes and versions).
• As part of this proposal, the ministry would also allow non-resident hunters who are moving into Ontario (i.e. becoming Ontario resident hunters) the ability to provide proof of their existing hunter accreditation and not require them to complete the Ontario Hunter Education Program or challenge the exam provided they have proof of hunter education certification, accreditation or appropriate licensing from a Ministry approved jurisdiction that meets Ontario’s hunter education standards.
• The ministry would continue with the current approach of accepting a certification, accreditation or licensing from a Ministry approved jurisdiction for those non-residents who are temporary visiting hunters.
• This proposed change is expected to simplify the licensing approach for Ontario resident and Non-Resident hunters. In addition, this proposal would improve consistency with many other jurisdictions across North America for accepting hunting accreditation from individuals from other jurisdictions where they are consistent with Ontario’s hunter education standards.


Hunting Licence Enhancements

• Hunting Dog Licensing:
„« Amend regulations to exempt the requirement for a Dog Licence for tracking dogs that are retrieving/tracking a lawfully wounded elk, moose or deer if the tracking dog is kept on a leash that has a maximum length of 10 metres and under the physical control of the dog handler.
„« Amend regulations to exempt the dog handler who is tracking a lawfully wounded elk, moose or deer from the requirement for a hunting licence if they are not in possession of a firearm, they are accompanied by a hunter that has a licence and associated tag for the animal being retrieved/tracked, and have physical control of a tracking dog that is kept on a leash that has a maximum length of 10 metres.
„« Under this proposal, the current approach of three separate dog licences (i.e. moose/deer, bear and raccoon) would be combined into a single Dog Licence that would be required for each dog that a hunter is using for hunting moose, deer, black bear or raccoon.
„« All other aspects of hunting with a dog would remain unchanged as part of this proposal.
„« This proposed change is expected to simplify and streamline the dog licensing approach for hunting.

• Licensing Requirements to Hunt on a Game Bird Hunting Preserve
„« Amend regulations to allow both resident and non-resident hunters to hunt on a licensed game bird hunting preserve with a valid Outdoors Card and hunter accreditation. Hunters would continue to be required to provide proof of their hunter accreditation and firearms licensing to the operator of the game bird hunting preserve.
„« This proposed change would eliminate the need for a ‘Small Game Licence’ or ‘Non-Resident Game Bird Hunting Preserve Licence’ to hunt on a game bird hunting preserve in Ontario.
„« Under this proposal, the ministry would also make changes to the ‘Licence to Own and Operate a Game Bird Hunting Preserve’ by adding Gray (Hungarian) Partridge to the list of eligible game bird species, and clarify that only ‘game bird’ species specified on the licence may be hunted on the preserve.
„« This proposed change is expected to remove a licensing burden and establish greater consistency in the licensing approach for individuals who wish to hunt on a licensed game bird hunting preserve.
 
Amend regulations to clarify the requirement for residents to carry a proof of successfully completing the non-restricted Canadian Firearms Safety Course if an individual is hunting or trapping with a gun (e.g. Firearm Possession and Acquisition Licence, Minor’s Licence, Canadian Firearms Safety Course Report indicating a successful pass).

Isn't this part saying that having a PAL is a form of proof? And... am I incorrect in assuming that during gun hunts, everyone has their PAL/POL with them anyways? Or did I misinterpret?
 
Okay so even if I had a POL that was later grandfathered into a PAL it means I still had to take a test on gun safety at one point or I would never have been able to buy the firearm in the first place. So if I'm in the woods without my PAL, hunting, for what ever reason, are they not able to see if I have a firearms license? (Could be I left my wallet in the car so I didn't lose it in the bush?)

Also you had to take a hunting course, that included gun safety, before you could get your hunting license and the round orange badge. So WTF is this all about?
 
I wouldn't ever go hunting without my pal, too big a chance someone might ask these days
Or at least a photocopy thereof if you are worried about losing the original
It does state it should be on you at all times you're in possession of said firearm other than storing them at home....
 
They want us to print our own tags on paper and then come up with a way to protect the paper so it doesn't become damaged during a week of rain or snow or a 15 hour trip home on the highway, I see a lot of people being charged in the future for not protecting the paper tags properly. Maybe we could all buy portable laminators for field use.
 
Communist Party Leader Wynne at it again along with promising to boost the minimum wage so we're closer to a state regulated salary for all. I sure didn't get such a big % jump as a register nurse.... WTF

How much will all this stream lining and efficiency cost me while lining your chrony pockets
 
I don't agree with possibly penalizing people for not reporting their hunting activity. I.E. not letting them buy a license the following year, fining them, etc. People sometimes just honestly forget. I know I have in the past and I bet a lot of the people reading this have too. But I think the idea finding of some way to incentivize people into following their reporting scheme has merit.
 
Nothing new there. For most of the last 40 years, not the last 5-6years, the controlled muzzleloader hunts in SW Ontario were like that. Don't fill out your mandatory report no tag the following year.

All these amendments do is put all the onus on you the hunter for processing your own paperwork and tags and remove the government or their agents from the process. Plus allow them more options to fine you when you do not have your paperwork in order. We get less, the gov gets more, for nothing, because folks are dumb enough to allow it. Most don't read a paper any longer but there was a great article Monday on the gross waste and mismanagement in the MNR. I don't carry a phone so having access that way means #### to me. In fact there are several farms in SW Ontario when in the bush I have no cell service. Print my own tags---how many would you like LMOA the current ones can't make it out of the bush on a turkey intact for 1/2 a mile, I can imagine how your home printed ones will fair.

More Liberal utopia headed your way now an election is on the horizon
 
with regards to the requirement of "As part of this proposal, ‘game seals’
would be replaced by ‘Tags’, which the client could self-print from their own
computer or potentially be printed by a licence issuer through the new
licensing system.
• This proposed change is expected to improve client service and modernize
service delivery related to the issuance of game seals/tags"

you have to wonder if the person who originally proposed this has actually
hunted out in the field where wind, rain, and blood are regularly encountered
as part of a hunt. A paper tag which would be printed at home, would not
survive the rigors of what would be required to stay attached and be legible on
an animal which was harvested. the "tag" must the made of a suitable material
which would be hard to find for a hunter, or not cost effective.. while this
is "easier" for the MNR, it places a significant burden on the hunters to meet
the level of the standard needed to use paper/printable tags.

"passing the buck" onto hunters for this aspect is not in the best interest of
ontario hunters.
 
I wonder how much this scheme will cost? I guess they still have not found the $80+ million dollars in hunting license revenue that vanished?
 
They want us to print our own tags on paper and then come up with a way to protect the paper so it doesn't become damaged during a week of rain or snow or a 15 hour trip home on the highway, I see a lot of people being charged in the future for not protecting the paper tags properly. Maybe we could all buy portable laminators for field use.

MNR has never been able to come up with an acceptable big game seal and they want us to print our own....
 
MNR has never been able to come up with an acceptable big game seal and they want us to print our own....

The best "seals" were plastic like a zip tie used in the late 60's until the early 80's back when we got both a Deer or a Moose tag AND a Black Bear tag on the same license. A-h-h-h-h,the good ol' days when everything was much simpler and twice as efficient.......
 
I just wonder how many "self printed" tags will get accidentally "duplicated" multiple times.

If I can print them at home then what's to stop me from taking a deer in the early bow, tagging it, getting it home and processed without every getting stopped for a game check - then once it's in the freezer just print out another "tag" from the file that I saved and going hunting again.

At least with the current one unless you can snag one of their printers and a roll of the seals it is pretty tough to "fake a tag". With the print yourself how many could you print before someone caught on?

So what if they have a serial number or whatever on them. Unless you are game checked and the tag number is stroked off some list, you could print dozens of them and all would look as valid as the next.

If they are looking at reducing "poaching" they couldn't pick a worse system - even the poachers will look "legal"...
 
Okay so even if I had a POL that was later grandfathered into a PAL it means I still had to take a test on gun safety at one point or I would never have been able to buy the firearm in the first place. So if I'm in the woods without my PAL, hunting, for what ever reason, are they not able to see if I have a firearms license? (Could be I left my wallet in the car so I didn't lose it in the bush?)

Also you had to take a hunting course, that included gun safety, before you could get your hunting license and the round orange badge. So WTF is this all about?
For those of us older than the CFC, i had an FAC then I got a POL, then one day it became a PAL, now I can buy more guns and hunt with said guns with out every having taken a firearms course. Now on your had to take a hunting course I did mine in Nfld in 1980 I was 12 it lasted about 3 hours.and there was no gun safety on it beyond how to climb a fence and cross a river.
 
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