problems with a used 1886 from Epps

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Harry Snippe

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We bought a used 1886 rifle from Epps and put it on Layaway . We paid for the rifle on time and took it out on the range only to find out it would not pick a round up from the Mag and chamber it and the trigger could not be pulled period to fire a round . We tried five different box's of Ammo to rule out an ammo issue .
How ever when the gun was empty you could lever the gun in a normal fashion and the trigger could be pulled when ever the gun was off safe as one would do when you wanted to fire ea round . The gun was returned to Epps and the young lad took it out back for a few minutes and informed the front staff in the showroom the rifle fired fine and there was not a thing wrong with it .So later they the staff fired 6 rounds and again stated the gun was fine - Nothing wrong with the gun .


OK I got upset with them, for I know as well as did my wife that the gun would not lever a round then fire it . It least they could offer to clean it . Or offer an other gun and we could pay the difference , or refund .
So this morning I went out load two rounds Winchester 300 Gr , the Mag and operated the lever . No cartridge entered the receiver . With a strong double tap a round would come up and be chambered .

I do not agree that this is Normal operation for this gun as I understand a round should chamber the first time ready to fire and not need to ratchet the ever a few times to have it ready to fire .
Got a $111.00 problem that needs to go to the gun smith . Should that gun now be repaired somewhere @ my cost ?.Maybe Wes could first hand look at the rifle coming from his shop
Harry:
 
paul792 said:
I would have asked to be present when it was fired at Epps. Maybe you are doing something wrong and don't know it.
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I agree... maybe go back to Epps with your ammo and ask if you could watch them fire it so you could see if you are doing something wrong and then if they have difficulties you are witness to it and are in a better position to complain.
 
Have you tried loading rounds single shot without using the magazine and if so does it close completely and fire? Also when you cycle the action, does the cartridge carrier stay up long enough for the shell to be started into the chamber? I have a model 94 which does not feed because the carrier drops down as soon as the bolt moves forward the slightest amount. I am pretty sure the reason is that the carrier has a spring arm on the left side and on this gun that arm was broken off and I silver soldered a new one on. The purpose of that arm is that it creates friction and delays the carrier dropping down until after the bullet has started entering the chamber

cheers mooncoon
 
Are you being too gentle maybe?
Sometimes with a lever, or a bolt or a pump for that matter, if you work the action too slow and gentle it won't fuction properly.
Not saying to hammer it, but work the lever "smartly" and see if it functions better.
 
kawicrash said:
Are you being too gentle maybe?
Sometimes with a lever, or a bolt or a pump for that matter, if you work the action too slow and gentle it won't fuction properly.
Not saying to hammer it, but work the lever "smartly" and see if it functions better.
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I have an old 45-70 that if you don't hit the end of the lever stroke with a little speed (snap the end stroke with the fingers), the round won't pick up correctly and then will jam. My lever shotgun needs to be run hard. The newest one (to me) is a 1895M that is very smooth (compared to the others) and can work well with someone who has less experience with a lever.
 
My wife asked if she could be present when they fired the rifle and she was refused .I tried to operate the lever smartly only to have it stopped by the cartridge not being picked up by the follower . When loaded the follower or carrier wants to stay down and not bring the cartridge up into the chamber . When the gun is free of any ammo it seems to work perfectly .The gun was very dry when we picked it up and it got a squirt or two of oil when it would not operate at all .How does one argue the gun has a problem when your constantly being told " nothing wrong with the gun !!! when we shot it it worked perfectly !!!
My wife wants to record me with her phone shooting the rifle showing how the rifle is not picking up a cartridge or jams half way up.
 
Harry Snippe said:
My wife asked if she could be present when they fired the rifle and she was refused .I tried to operate the lever smartly only to have it stopped by the cartridge not being picked up by the follower . When loaded the follower or carrier wants to stay down and not bring the cartridge up into the chamber . When the gun is free of any ammo it seems to work perfectly .The gun was very dry when we picked it up and it got a squirt or two of oil when it would not operate at all .How does one argue the gun has a problem when your constantly being told " nothing wrong with the gun !!! when we shot it it worked perfectly !!!
My wife wants to record me with her phone shooting the rifle showing how the rifle is not picking up a cartridge or jams half way up.
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When they tell you it worked perfectly, tell them bullschitt. You will have to see them shoot it to believe it works perfectly because it never has for you. There is no good reason why you can not watch them shoot it... bring your own ear and eye protection and ask for the owner or manager.
 
If they refuse to allow you to view them shooting it.........next step is to surrender it to a competent gun smith for evaluation.
From there you will have some legal options.

Not trying to bash a site sponsor, but using factory ammo isn't working for you, then get them to supply the ammo
that works for them and see what happens?

Sometimes lemons t'ain't werthy of making lemon jewse.
 
A couple years ago I had a chance to buy a 1886 that was as I discovered was originally a 40-82 re-bored to 45-70 and it wouldn't feed either.Wonder if it isn't the same gun? Harold
 
I have finally been in contact with the owner . He E-mailed Last Night . The story he got from his staff was way off . I think we both got on each others Nerves real quick .Hope to be able to get the rifle in to his gun shop and have his Smith see what I am concerned about . I would like to have this resolved and not have any hard feelings with the shop or his staff .

Yes if I get nowhere I will surrender it to another Gunsmith and go from there . That is good advice Kamlooky

I thank you all for your support I will keep you posted .
Harry
 
It does not end here , as the counter person said the gun shot fine So what am I to argue The report given to the owner is quite different than what was said and who said what . I said in the E-mail that what I said was not as reported , and My interest was only in getting the rifle repaired rather than engage the counter person , who's aim I see , was to push a few buttons so that they would not need to service the rifle , I would just go away bad !!Was this the owners intent ?

Well pouring the oil / gun cleaner to the action and looking down into the stock it appears this gun just needs t be cleaned badly .I have bought about fifty guns there over the years and recommended Epps to my friends who then bought firearms there too . Well I guess that ends today .This was the third rifle they stuck me with that needed a good clean .
 
Well every firearm I have encountered usually needed to be cleaned not only because of my standards from many different reasons such as the
prior owner or owners apparently never bothered, long period of non perfect storage, improper prior cleanings, bugs (not kidding the six legged kind
both that crawled in and died and ones that got stuck on crap inside in this one 1897.......)

So hopefully a clean will solve your problem or getting a gunsmith you have confidence in to look at it.

You are right that personalization and creating anger can be a tactic. Sometimes people give up or go away or get angry which makes them seem wrong or irrational
when an issue is escalated and impairs their ability to state their case properly.

You have to keep in mind that in business (and this is becoming more prevalent as the population increases) eyes the value of the customer and whether or not
the customer is right (especially when they are) as simply a dollars and cents equation and issue. How much is this going to cost me in the short run to make this guy
happy vs percieved long run. With a product problem they consider also the cost of being stuck with the total loss of the product value or perhaps less repair.

Unless it is a recognized and known repeat customer and a high spender future business isn't a consideration and if people complain its a cost of doing business.

Good luck with the clean! :)
 
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I think there is a break down in communication. Not enought was said and what was said were the wrong things for the issue to be resolved. I was the customer on the other end of the counter with the 7 handguns laid out infront of me. Could not help but to over heard the conversation and I could tell you that the way the OP and the salesperson was going about their business that nothing was going to be accomplished which is why I minded my own business.
 
kamlooky said:
If they refuse to allow you to view them shooting it.........next step is to surrender it to a competent gun smith for evaluation.
From there you will have some legal options.

Not trying to bash a site sponsor, but using factory ammo isn't working for you, then get them to supply the ammo
that works for them and see what happens?

Sometimes lemons t'ain't werthy of making lemon jewse.
Click to expand...

My brother bought a levergun from epps that was given a 'very good' evaluation on the epps website.
It cycled good in the store but when he got it home and tried it with ammo it wouldn't cycle the factory ammo (we tried 3 brands).
Paw said he could fix it but my bros decided to take it back.
No problem getting the money back.
Can't complain about that.
I think the money back trial period at epps is 30 days.

Return Policy

Can used items be returned for a refund?
Yes. Customers have up to 30 days to return any used item.
Click to expand...
 
We found the proprietor 'wes' at epps reasonable and easy to deal with.
30 days is plenty of time to determine if a firearm is defective or not.
The selection of new and used guns at that place is amazing.
Their website started rough but is pretty good now.
A little more work on publishing pics of used guns on line is all that is needed.
 
My issue with EPPS is the younger staff. No real experience with firearms and telling me "facts" that are just BS.

I won't do business with them again.

Too much attitude and too little knowledge.

Sorry Wes. But that has been my experience over the past few years.
 
I would have been very happy with any support given .Given that the gun was not working properly ,I would have been pleased if it was sent to the gun shop to where I wanted it to go, or offered to exchange for a rifle of the same value .
 
torontogungal said:
My brother bought a levergun from epps that was given a 'very good' evaluation on the epps website.
It cycled good in the store but when he got it home and tried it with ammo it wouldn't cycle the factory ammo (we tried 3 brands).
Paw said he could fix it but my bros decided to take it back.
No problem getting the money back.
Can't complain about that.
I think the money back trial period at epps is 30 days.
Click to expand...

The front staff did not have a nickle invested " So" why could the rifle not be sent to the repair shop ? Other than that I would be happy to echange for another unit even if I had to pay a bit to do it .
Harry
 
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