My IPSC Experience

[Trinimon]

IPSC should ensure that BB course attendees are made abundantly aware that they must be very familial with their equipment and be sufficiently capable with the firearm intended for the course. I would even go as far as signing a form in this regard as part of the course requirement beforehand and that the instructor may dismiss anyone he feels is not up to par. There is a lot that can be learned with an unloaded firearm that would be very useful but you do not know much until the "course".

When I was looking into BB courses, of the two instructors who I contacted, both sent me info documents outlining the requirements ie MUST be able to shoot 10/10 rnds into a paper plate sized target at 20yrds, MUST have their own holster, mag pouches and pistol. Student needs to have shot at least 1K rounds though that pistol and be thoroughly familiar with the controls.

When I got into the classroom, after the introduction, first thing the instructor said was safety is number 1 and there would be zero tollerance for any unsafe handling of any firearm during the course. If you accidentally point your gun at someone, you're going home. If you look down the barrel as in ACT/PROVE, you're going home. If you have a ND, you're going home. You play with your pistol when you aren't the one on the line, you're going home. If caught with your finger in the trigger guard when it's not supposed to or pointing the muzzle above the berm, you get a warning, the next one will have you packing up your gear and going home. If you didn't like those terms, that was the time to leave the classroom.

 

[bsand]

Not if you have small hands the higher you go the more your going to rotate your hand on the grip. I think the super exaggerate finger on the slide stupid and I don't do it,if your finger is up the frame it's not near the trigger
If you don't have the strength in your hands to squeeze the grip and keep your finger there and the slightest bump with cause you to put your finger months trigger when you don't mean too then action sports are not your game. I can't swim worth #### so I'm not going to enter a swimming competition,people need to be honest with themselves and know their limitations.

I wear a size medium glove. I have no troubles touching the slide on my shadow.

 

[Cameron SS]

It's unfortunate that a member of CGN is unable to relate an experience that they have had without being ripped to shreds by ignorant members of the board. What a terrific way to show support for our sport.

Which sport, the gun owning sports in general or IPSC? I am ignorant about a lot of things, but if you tell me that you dropped a gun, I am not ignorant of the fact that you dropped a gun. By that fact alone, and the fact that no shooting sport in the world condones dropping guns, I deem that at least on that day, you were unsafe and needed a time out.

I won't rip you to shreds for it, mistakes happen, but I will be critical. Unless you think any degree of criticism constitutes being ripped to shreds. so If that's the case, than it certainly illuminates your interpretation of events that day.

I've never been a big fan of mandatory BB courses....but if it weeds out people who can't holster a firearm, then it can't be all bad

It only weeds them out of IPSC, and displaces them to other shooting sports.

kidcom you are not alone as I feel the IPSC crowd is one of the most anal out of all the disciplines. Rarely observe any smiling faces, competitors seldom assist, to cut throat for most, elitist attitude just to name a few things. Sorry For me not much fun.

Indeed. And after reading the thread title I thought this was going to be another well deserved IPSC slam fest, and yet this is the first time I find myself siding with the IPSC crowd without reservation.

I should mention that if everyone had read my OP carefully, you would have realize that I wasn't DQ'd for dropping my pistol. The reason for that, which I forgot to mention, was the pistol was safe, no magazine, no round in the chamber. It was my second percieved drop of my finger towards the trigger guard that resulted in the DQ. That was obviously questioned by the young fellow who spoke with me after I was asked to leave the course.

I don't see anyone claiming erroneously that you were DQd for dropping your pistol. But many here indicated that they were surprised you got another chance afterwards. I will bet the guy who got 6 chances for the finger on the trigger never dropped his gun.

I am not at all surprised that after fumbling a firearm, you were on a strick zero tolerance policy afterwards, and your very next infraction resulted in being asked to stop.

I have re read your post several times. No where do you accuse the staff of being rude, mean, impolite or unprofessional. You would have found a lot of sympathy had that been your complaint.

Instead you indicate that you were repeatedly unsafe, you do not accept the opinion of range staff, and yet consider safety to be paramount.

This happened several years ago, and you chose to complain about it only now? Why?

 

[jory]

I've yet to shoot an IPSC match, but my BB course last year showed me that these guys don't mess around when it comes to safety- not only for them and you, but the rest of the people at the class.

There was one gentleman at the course I was at who was in the same situation- a little older and stiffer than most, and he had trouble doing some of the things that were asked of us. He was not too old or stiff however, to follow the basic handgun safety rules, and other rules that were laid out for us to guarantee all our safety, such as "don't try and jam your gun in the holster if it doesn't go the first time". The fellow at our course couldn't wrap his head around that, and repeatedly tried to ram his pistol into his holster without looking at it, and would just jam away at it if it didn't go in smoothly. To make matters worse, he had doubled up on hearing protection, and was likely already out of his prime when it came to having a good set of years. As such, he couldn't hear the BB instructor shouting at him to stop doing that, and continued battering his holster quite dangerously for far longer than anyone was comfortable watching. He was given multiple stern warnings from the instructor, which took away from teaching time, and made everyone else noticeably uneasy, feeling pretty certain they were going to watch someone shoot them self in the leg that day.

The point is that the course/sport isn't for everyone, given skill level, physical limitations, experience with a gun, or a combination of both. The guy at my course was older and had handled guns for years, but very obviously had little to no training with a holster. Simply put, the "you can't teach and old dog new tricks" thing came into play, and the guy wasn't safe. In this situation, I think the instructor did the right thing to keep you and the other students as safe as he could.

 

[skoal]

I wear a size medium glove. I have no troubles touching the slide on my shadow.

So can I and I usually were a med gloves as well but that wasn't really my point. Point was that an exaggerated finger way up on the slide isn't nessary I get why some people might do it but it dosnt matter where it is just where it isn't the trigger guard.

 

[VanMan]

So can I and I usually were a med gloves as well but that wasn't really my point. Point was that an exaggerated finger way up on the slide isn't nessary I get why some people might do it but it dosnt matter where it is just where it isn't the trigger guard.

From an RO perspective, I much prefer the "exaggerated finger way up". During a course of fire, it can be real tough to see where your trigger finger is. If I can clearly see it up and away from the trigger guard, then all is easy peasy. If it's alongside the trigger guard and I get a glimpse that looks like it's even the tiniest bit inside, I'll take the side of safety, make the "stop" call, and take my licks if I'm wrong.

 

[skoal]

From an RO perspective, I much prefer the "exaggerated finger way up". During a course of fire, it can be real tough to see where your trigger finger is. If I can clearly see it up and away from the trigger guard, then all is easy peasy. If it's alongside the trigger guard and I get a glimpse that looks like it's even the tiniest bit inside, I'll take the side of safety, make the "stop" call, and take my licks if I'm wrong.

As I said I get why some people do it but I put my finger where ever it lands and I've only ever been called on it once. And that same ro called stop on 7 of the shooters in our squad so were pretty sure he was just an idiot. Like I said I get it but telling people that have to put their finger way up on the slide isn't nesessary imo.

 

[Ottawa]

You are not alone, ya forget IPSC. Did everyone there email every gunnie they know to tell them about all the mistakes you made or tell the owner of your club that "you did something very dangerous" screw them. Find some buddies that do tactical shooting and just have fun. I have heard plenty of people bragging how they DQ'd a guy in the last stage of a BB course because his finger was "near" the trigger.
I love how the higher ups at IPSC have convinced clubs to not allow holsters unless people have a black badge... they can go jump in a lake.

 

[Ottawa]

I wear a size medium glove. I have no troubles touching the slide on my shadow.

I have a shadow and have a hard time with the safety sometimes, specially slide release.

 

[Wendell]

You say that my finger was on the trigger...it WASN"T. Again the point has been missed. My finger was NEVER inside the trigger guard PERIOD. That's why the young fellow came to me at the end to express his disbelief as to what happened.

If you really believe that to be true, then it follows that you believe your DQ to have been unfair, and solely the responsibility of a rogue IPSC Canada RO.

And if you believe that to be true, you should not quit IPSC.

You should report the official to IPSC Canada, and then you should take the Black Badge again, but from a different IPSC Canada instructor.

P.S.: It's not too late.

...If you feel you can be safe, and want to try IPSC one more time, challenge the black badge course again. Prove to yourself that the other guy was wrong...

x2

 

[Bigrounds8mil]

I love how the higher ups at IPSC have convinced clubs to not allow holsters unless people have a black badge... they can go jump in a lake.

Thats an IPSC thing? I just figured it was club rules up here.

At my range I'm allowed my holster and pistol as long as the gun is empty and I load a mag AFTER I draw. I take firearma safety pretty seriously and wouldn't draw with a hot weapon for the hell of it without some kind of training.

That being said, going to try out for IDPA later this year, I don't think I really want a race gun anyways, seems like cheating. Lol

Sorry to hear about your experience OP, I agree with a few others in that you shoukd try qualifying again if its been a while and you've had time to get used to all your gear.

 

[Cameron SS]

Thats an IPSC thing? I just figured it was club rules up here.

At my range I'm allowed my holster and pistol as long as the gun is empty and I load a mag AFTER I draw. I take firearma safety pretty seriously and wouldn't draw with a hot weapon for the hell of it without some kind of training.

That being said, going to try out for IDPA later this year, I don't think I really want a race gun anyways, seems like cheating. Lol

Sorry to hear about your experience OP, I agree with a few others in that you shoukd try qualifying again if its been a while and you've had time to get used to all your gear.

I dont think its the higher ups at IPSC per se, but the only clubs that I have seen with a "no holsters unless BB rule" are the ones with robust IPSC groups.

Despite what graduates of a 2 day course may tell you, your average non idiot can master a holster in 10 minutes or less with the aid of any one of a 100 half decent youtube videos on the subject.

Anyone who isnt safe to use a holster after an honest hour with a competent instructor probably isnt safe for firearms ownership generally.

 

[madcow]

[youtube]4LE32Riyugg[/youtube]

Safety is first priority in any shooting sport.

 

[bsand]

I have a shadow and have a hard time with the safety sometimes, specially slide release.

I don't touch the slide release lol then again my gun doesn't lock back on my 23 round magazines that I use for USPSA. And I should never run dry

I dont think its the higher ups at IPSC per se, but the only clubs that I have seen with a "no holsters unless BB rule" are the ones with robust IPSC groups.

Despite what graduates of a 2 day course may tell you, your average non idiot can master a holster in 10 minutes or less with the aid of any one of a 100 half decent youtube videos on the subject.

Anyone who isnt safe to use a holster after an honest hour with a competent instructor probably isnt safe for firearms ownership generally.

I self taught myself how to draw, passed the safety check for uspsa without any issues. Have shot 16+ matches not a single DQ so far... I bet they will come lol

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Time to loosen the tin foil hats.
Neither IPSC, IPSC Canada nor the IPSC Sections tell gun clubs that they have to recognize our Black Badge Certification for Holster carry there.
We're flattered & thankful they recognize the inherent safety level of our a certified competitors; but don't force it on anyone. If a club does it, they chose to do it on their own.

For that matter, we don't force IPSC on anyone - if you don't like it, don't do it. Best of luck to you!

We've got almost 4000 members, wait lists for full black badge courses; major matches that sell out in minutes...thousands of matches in the country each year.
We are the largest & most active handgun sport in Canada.
We're thrilled to have you join us, but we'll make it just fine without you too.

 

[Cameron SS]

[youtube]4LE32Riyugg[/youtube]

Safety is first priority in any shooting sport.

Ole Texas Grebner. He is internet famous. Even better than the fact that this idiot's first instinct after shooting himself is to drop a loaded gun on ground and then talk to the camera, is his explanation as to why it happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

Talks about holster retention and inadvertently disengaging the safety, never mentions why his finger went to the trigger before the pistol was on target.

Based on his logic, you would think that finger hitting the trigger while drawing from the BlackHawk is normal, and a mechanical safety is necessary to prevent accidental discharge. Clearly he should be of the opinion that drawing a glock from a blackhawk is patently unsafe.

How has this guy not shot himself hundreds of times Grebner? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqGVU1sW8pg

Quote of his life @ 3:36. "Things just tend to happen. I just hope that they never happen to me again."

In my experience, hope is not a viable course of action. That said, he is still actively posting on his Youtube channel, but seems most of his stuff is hunting and fishing related now.

 

[NickVR]

Time to loosen the tin foil hats.
Neither IPSC, IPSC Canada nor the IPSC Sections tell gun clubs that they have to recognize our Black Badge Certification for Holster carry there.
We're flattered & thankful they recognize the inherent safety level of our a certified competitors; but don't force it on anyone. If a club does it, they chose to do it on their own.

For that matter, we don't force IPSC on anyone - if you don't like it, don't do it. Best of luck to you!

We've got almost 4000 members, wait lists for full black badge courses; major matches that sell out in minutes...thousands of matches in the country each year.
We are the largest & most active handgun sport in Canada.
We're thrilled to have you join us, but we'll make it just fine without you too.

Can't wait to join!
. .
The 2 clubs I have been members at both recognized the Black Badge or TDSA Holster qualification as being allowed on the range, and for those not interested in IPSC a member needed to do the 1 day course the club offered to be holster qualified at the club. Pretty simple and a good idea IMO.

 

[VICIOUS]

HI; As to the support from other shooters at a IPSC match, It has happened to me that many have helped, showed me better ways to be faster, smoother ways to do actions and best way to shoot a stage. I can take it or not but it was nice to hear from the better shooters.
Some people get into a RACEFACE mind set and do not wish to be talked to till after the match. This does not make them anything but a serious competitor. I respect that.
I have shot cowboy action shooting for 30 years and we yell at shooter and have done tricks to them BUT that is a different mind set. Trap is also a serious shooting game played with stern faces.

 

[coreyd]

What I think is funny is that all the people who have negative opinions of IPSC are the ones who don't shoot IPSC. I love hearing how all the RO's are douches and all they want to do is DQ people and all that fluff. That's all a load of BS really. We all focus on safety first and the majority of people who have multiple DQ issues are the type of people who are either the best shooters in the world cause they got their pistol a month ago or the people who have been shooting forever and are safe (in their own eyes). At the end of the day we all want to go home. We all want to have fun and we all want everyone else to have fun. The true competitors are those who have put in the time to safely go fast and safely shoot accurately.

The biggest problem I can identify is that firearms owners refuse to be criticised. It seems like if you are a new shooter your are full of pee and vinegar and have watched enough youtube videos to know exactly what you are doing. The opposite end of the spectrum is the old boys club who have been shooting for 80 years and know everything about everything even though they have never actually competed in action shooting.

In the end, not every sport, discipline, activity is something that anyone who wishes to can participate in. While IPSC does try to accommodate for physical constraints, at the end of the day it is physical action competition. Maybe the OP can try out at a walk-on training camp for a professional sports team and then cry a few years later that he was asked to leave. At least with that there's no chance of shooting someone.

 

[tommy tong]

is this the same coreyed the RO who DQed me few years back cause i holstered my gun too fast and ended up muzzle up in my holster
Damn you .. Damn u bloody apes...Damn u all to hellllllllll (original Charlton Heston version and not the remakes)